[ SECRET POST #2259 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2259 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Cheers, I finally have somebody I can ask about this!

How do you imagine this dynamics in canon setting? I mean, it is a super homophobic environment, and they themselves are likely to be absolutely terrified by the very thought of non-platonic relationship.

There are so many things wrong with this (mentor-student situation, age difference, Marty being underage in the beginning (?), same-sex relationship being illegal) that the only reaction I can expect from Doc is to curl up in a very dark corner and die.

Not aggressive, just curious. I've always wanted to encounter a person who ships such a pairing in a "realistic" manner, probably because the only ship present in my fandom is of the same kind, and the only story that exists for it has the couple being happy and all that, which weirds me out to no end, since I know the historical context quite well.

[dreemyweird]

...and that was me, forgot to log in

[intrigueing]

Most people don't analyze it (or the 13875784 other relationships comparable to it in various other fictional works) that deeply or focus on all the little details of real-world stuff. I mean, it's a movie about a mad scientist building a time machine out of a DeLorean with his teenage assistant while engaging in shenanigans such as getting hit by lightning, climbing clock towers, and being assassinated by Libyan plutonium dealers.

The stuff you're talking about is so, so, so far away from the purview of the movie that most people wouldn't find it remotely interesting to think about, much less actually discuss. In fact, they'd probably find it pointless and ridiculous. It might make for a fascinating fic, but it's...so not the point.

[dreemyweird]

I guess you're right, although I think that, while the cultural background is not "the point" and is not directly addressed, it is a necessary implication. All the DeLorean/lightning/clock towers stuff happens in the material world, it does not invalidate the fact that Doc and Marty are white Americans from the eighties.

It is a part of their characters, that is. And I just don't see it working and being non-OOC - not so much because of the actual historical conditions as because of their personalities.

In any case, I think that "realistic" shipping is fascinating. This is probably the only kind of shippy fic I'd read for the relationship dynamics. Unfortunately, people really don't seem to be interested in it.

[intrigueing]

Oh, liking realistic fic and not liking unrealistic fic is totally fine, and realistic fics can be really amazing when done thoroughly, but that doesn't mean it's OOC to ask for a level of suspension-of-disbelief that doesn't go beyond the level of suspension of disbelief the canon material already requires. Honestly, you're...just not gonna find much sympathy if you bother shippers (of any pairing in any fandom) with this kind of stuff. It's not that they don't acknowledge it or see it, it's that they're not interested in it and will probably feel rather insulted by someone questioning them about it as if it's really never occurred to them. Just a heads up.

[dreemyweird]

Yeah, I know. Not questioning shippers to make them think about it, though; frankly, I just like hearing people explain their fandom preferences.

[intrigueing]

Oh yeah, I understand. But a lot of people get touchy about it because they assume (usually with understandable reasons, due to how much flaming and X vs Y goes on in fandom) that it's an incoming attack on what they like.

[blitzwing]

The 80's? I don't see the problem. I mean, there are people shipping characters in slash pairings back in the 1880's, and in times/situations where being caught could literally mean being executed.

(I honestly can't remember this series but) if the guy's a scientist, how likely is it that he would buy into the whole "gay-is-wrong" crap society peddles?

[lunabee34]

I think I mostly agree with you. I enjoy fic best that takes into account time and place and doesn't shy away from issues the characters would realistically face. That doesn't mean I don't like fluff and happiness and escapism from time to time as well, but I generally enjoy fics that are attuned to setting.

I'm not in the Back to the Future fandom, but one example I would give to illustrate my agreement with you is the Live Free or Die Hard fandom. I've read and written my fair share of John McClane/Matt Farrell kinky yummy or silly hacker fic where John doesn't really wrestle at all with developing feelings for a man who's young enough to be his child. But my favorite story I've written is one where John just can't handle those feelings and can't bring himself to participate in a relationship with Matt. He can't get over the generation he grew up in, the homophobic environment of his workplace, the discomfort of re-negotiating his sexuality in his fifties--and they don't end up together in the end. A few other writers in the fandom (I think poisontaster and miss_pryss maybe?) have written similar takes. I wouldn't want to read or write fic like that all the time, but it definitely interests me.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I wrote a lot of Corny/Maybelle fic in the HAirspray fandom back in the day, and it was super awk. at times. "But...everyone used the word 'negro' but if I use it won't SJWs get after me? And I want them to get married and have adorable talented mixed race babies but miscegenation laws...and what about--"

[lunabee34]

*nods nods*

[(Anonymous)]

i'm 100% with this, although at this point that kind of fic is really the only kind i'll read. the adherence to canon and its characters is what makes a fic good for me beyond the general appeal of the plot. (hence, i can't stand most AUs.) it feels like i'm reading an actual story, as opposed to the soap opera-ish stuff i come across where really ridiculous shit happens and consequences seem to be random, and things either work out much worse or much better than actually makes sense.

[lunabee34]

I do enjoy AUs, but canon-compliant fics are generally my favorite and generally what I end up writing.

I don't mean to be rude, but the simple answer is...

[(Anonymous)]

Re: I don't mean to be rude, but the simple answer is...

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, pretty sure you did mean to be rude.

[(Anonymous)]

...I realize 1985 wasn't particularly enlightened by modern standards, but I don't know if I'd call it "super-homophobic". 1955, maybe, but did those two even interact in the 1955 part?

[dreemyweird]

I can't call myself an expert, but Americans I've encountered told me that in the US it was a bad time for homosexuals. I guess it also depends on the state/the social position of a person.

And yes, they did?? Quite a lot? In fact, some people only ship 1955!Doc with Marty, not bringing the 1985!version into the equation.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, I see. I'm not super-familiar with the source material. :-P

1950s, yeah, I'd describe that as pretty bad. (Though it could be worse, it could always be worse...) I'm not an expert, either, but my impression is that by the 1980s things had at least started to change.

[brooms]

the 80s were rough because of HIV. i think it's considered a step backward from the 70s in regards to to social stigma.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

i actually found your ideas really interesting

[(Anonymous)]

lol