fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2260 ]

[ SECRET POST #2260 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2260 ⌋

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Off-topic, but I don't have any Wiccan friends or acquaintances. I want to be really clear that I mean no offense, and that there is no sarcasm in this question, just genuine curiosity:

Do you, OP, believe that you can cast spells, and that they work?

(I mean this as a question no different from genuinely asking a Jewish person, "Do you really believe God will be mad at you for eating pork?")

probability is good that what you think of as "spells" are not what are called "spells" in Wicca

tl;dr it's not harry potter magics

In a broad-based, I'm into earth magics, and "Wiccan" is a term I answer to, yes. I do.

Pretty much the same way I see Christian prayers work.

But I also see both 'not' working, or working in completely different ways than how the petitioner expects.

Think of it like the "power of prayer" in other religions.

I think "spells" are just more or less ritual prayers. Some people use prayer beads or spin prayer wheels, others cast circles.

"Do you, OP, believe that you can cast spells, and that they work?"

OP - Yes, and no. No I don't believe I can cast spells Harry Potter style, but in Wicca spells are sort of like prayers, only with more ritual involved. It also involves the raising and release of energy, which we believe can affect things like conscience (and here I should probably pause a moment and say this is just how I personally describe spell work, and another Wiccan may see it, or explain it another way all together - in other words, not trying to speak for all Wiccans here, we're all individuals with our own take on things).

Okay, now that I've gotten the disclaimer out the way - say, for example, I want to do a spell to get a job. I create sacred space, do an appropriate ritual, raise power/energy (usually done through dancing, drumming, chanting, breathing exercises, and the like), and then release that energy out into the universe with my intent, in this case 'I intend to get a job'. So then maybe when I go to an interview, I remember the ritual, I remember the shift in consciousness I felt, I feel more confident as a result, I'm not as nervous, I ace the interview, I get the job. Same as a Christian might pray for a job, and go to an interview feeling more relaxed because they have faith that God will do right by them, and that shows through in their interview style, and they get the job. Does that make sense? It's not 'magic' like wave a magic wand and *poof* something happens, but it is magic from the point of view that we're using energy to bend or shape things to our will (will in this context meaning 'want').

Generally speaking, when it comes to our 'will' or what we want, many Wiccans, including myself, follow the guidelines of "For the good of the all, for the good of others, for the good of ourselves" - meaning we work for the good of the universe and the planet before anything, then we work for the good of others, and finally we work for the good of ourselves. Also intent in magic really is everything. Just to go back to the 'spell to get a job' example, say I did the ritual, raised energy, and all that, but in the back of mind I'm thinking 'I know I really need a job right now, but I really don't want this particular job, I'm only going for it because I'm broke and desperate', then chances are I'm going to carry that to the interview, I'm going to be silently hoping the spell hasn't really worked, I'm probably going to be nervous as hell, and completely screw the interview up - end result, no job.

I hope I've been able to explain that properly. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm not like an expert or anything, but I've followed the Wiccan path for the last 24 years (since I was 16) and I'm always happy to answer people's queries as best I can. :)

"Same as a Christian might pray for a job, and go to an interview feeling more relaxed because they have faith that God will do right by them,"

Um. Pretty sure that is the exact opposite of how a Christian is to pray for/about things, imo. "Thy will be done" &c. Also, sometimes the "right" answer is no.....

OP

Okay, that might have been a bad example. I find this sort of stuff hard to explain, so I was trying to think of something relatable to illustrate what I meant. I see a lot of my Christian friends talking about putting their trust in God, and the Lord will always do right by them, their faith will see them through, and so on, so I figured they might use prayer in a similar way. I totally am prepared to admit that I'm not Christian, and I could have completely misunderstood or gotten it all wrong. If there are any Christians reading as well, please feel free to correct me if I've said anything wrong, or given any wrong examples of your faith.

As a Christian with a higher than average exposure to Wicca (well, paganism, really, but let's not split hairs), I would equate them. Of course, there is a strong understanding in Christianity that what the penitent wants is not always the best thing so it doesn't result as expected, but I was under the impression that pagans employed a similar understanding. At least, all my pagan friends seemed to.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-12 01:22 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-03-12 01:31 (UTC) - Expand

IDK, that's how a lot of Christians I've known have treated prayers. Sorta. It's simplified, because yes, as you say there's the "God's will" thing, and maybe God will want something different. However, I'd still say that prayer affects people in similar ways as the OP is giving an example of with increased confidence, etc. Just, if they don't get the job, they may be more likely to shrug and figure that it just wasn't in God's plan.

Some Wiccans (and other neopagans) approach it the same way too, only insert their personal deity or the universe in general instead of God.

Christianity is hardly a consistent religion. The branches you are familiar with may interpret scripture in a way that does not rely on prayer but that is not true for a broad range of others. Wicca spellcasting, when you strip it of some of its ritual, is really not that far from popular forms of prayer in American evangelism or Southern Baptist churches, especially African-American ones.

You can make many comparisons between Christianity and Wicca, partly because both are extremely loose terms and partly because Wicca has a lot of converts from Christianity. The high level of ritual is similar to Catholicism or Eastern Orthodox traditions. Hell, even Methodist churches mark the religious seasons by changing the colors of altar hangings and alternating candles.

Why on earth are you treading on eggshells? Any mainstream religion would get shredded around here, but Wicca (completely invented in the 20th century btw and not an ancient survival from the Burning Times, whatever ahistorical dross they feed themselved) is somehow spared?

Odd.

OP

Yes, invented in the 20th century by Gerald Gardner, drawing from a variety of sources, including Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templis Orientis and Thelema. Wicca is a reconstructionist neo pagan belief system, not an unchanged, forever existing since the stone age kind of deal. As for the so called 'Burning Times', the vast majority of people who lost their lives during the witch hunts were actually Christian, innocent people caught up in a heap of superstitious fervour, and nonsense, a large part of it being fueled by a combination of fear and greed. And the numbers of people who died during the witch hunts has been grossly overstated at one time or another.

As for anyone walking on eggshells, I didn't see it that way, I just thought the commenter was being polite, same as I would be when asking someone of a different faith if they could explain something about their beliefs - just common courtesy.

"the vast majority of people who lost their lives during the witch hunts were actually Christian"

THIS. We were just the wrong "kind" of Christians as far as the imperial powers were concerned.

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

Anon sounds respectful regardless of the religion in question (note their example about Judaism), unlike those who would "shred" it. There's no need for you to be rude.

lol Butthurt Christian is butthurt Want some holy water for the burning flames of butthurt? Perhaps a cross would feel better

I think they came here right from the Bible slash thread. Which makes the "butthurt" part especially funny.

Nothing gets two male apostles in the mood better than the blood of Christ! Go

where do I find quran slash?

da

Wow anon careful with those edges, you might cut yourself!

I would say that spellcasting has very little to do with actual wicca (though it is definitely the draw). Wicca is a religion with its own system of deity (lifted and adapted, but distinct) and rituals that may seem like witchy-woo spells but really aren't.

The main reason why wicca never appealed to me was because I'm not a dualist. If/once people move past the fluffy bunny phase (and then the reflexive hdu phase) it really becomes about the connection with the earth and deity, the lord and lady, etc.

(The connection between wicca and witchcraft annoy me, but because I'm tired of seeing all the herbalism&c stuff wind up being tired and recycled wicca stuff which I disagree with.)

OP

I agree totally, and thanks for bringing this point up - Wicca and Traditional Witchcraft are not the same thing. Wiccans do still do workings (spell crafting) outside of our other rituals for celebrating the cycle of the seasons and the moon, but you're right we do also have our own system of belief, with our own views of deity and the various laws and rede, and so on, that a Traditional Witch doesn't necessarily follow. I tend to cringe whenever I see a, albeit well meaning for the most part, fellow Wiccan trying to tell someone who has clearly stated they follow Traditional Witchcraft, that they're doing it wrong, and they can't be a proper Witch because they're not following the Threefold law, or the Wiccan Rede, or *insert whatever other specific Wiccan thing here*.

Some good articles on the topic ~ Wicca vs Traditional Witchcraft

http://www.enchantedoak.com/tradwicca.html

http://www.blue-moon-manor.com/articles/compared-to-wicca.html

http://www.spiritedenterprise.com/witchvswiccan.htm

ayrt

There's not even one thing that is "traditional witchcraft". Especially considering how syncretic a lot of american pagan tradition has become, people can be a heritage practitioner with roots in hoodoo or native practices or any one of europe's traditions. I tend for a mix of celtic and kemetic reconstruction (which, weirdly, is not unique to me) so I am very aware of the multiplicities of paths. I just wish more wiccan writers would acknowledge that, dammit! :)

The rule of three is well and good (or the rule of however many that pcp came up with) but isn't something I agree with or care about.

For Wiccans, its generally a very ritualized form of prayer, like everyone else said.

Other faiths and paths have their own forms of "magic", too, which can take the form of various kinds of divination (tarot, astrology, scrying, runegaldr, casting stones, etc.), meditation and trance work (seidr, "shamanism", the use of flying ointments, etc.), kitchen and hedge witchery, alchemy, kabbalah, creating magical talismans, and all sorts of other things that are often very tradition-specific.

Most of the time, spells are as much about getting yourself in the right frame of mind for something as they are about changing the rest of the universe. For example, if I make a talisman of emotional protection, I'm wearing it as a reminder to myself to keep my guard up and not let things get to me, more than I'm assuming the universe is going to heed my painted rock on a string and not send any assholes my way. I don't personally know any serious practitioners who don't think their work is 99% placebo effect and subjective validation. They operate under the knowledge that the placebo effect can be very powerful, and that things like tarot readings can help people make sense of messy situations.

Reading the tarot is a great meditative tool that allows you to sort of set everything aside and see your situation more objectively. Just going, "why do I react this way to that card?" is a great way to work through issues.

I think that force of will and just the energy we put into belief can influence the universe, but yeah, it's 99% placebo and another .9% coincidence.

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