[ SECRET POST #2260 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2260 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 080 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

14. http://i48.tinypic.com/315ygb9.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Off-topic, but I don't have any Wiccan friends or acquaintances. I want to be really clear that I mean no offense, and that there is no sarcasm in this question, just genuine curiosity:

Do you, OP, believe that you can cast spells, and that they work?


(I mean this as a question no different from genuinely asking a Jewish person, "Do you really believe God will be mad at you for eating pork?")

[(Anonymous)]

probability is good that what you think of as "spells" are not what are called "spells" in Wicca

tl;dr it's not harry potter magics

[(Anonymous)]

In a broad-based, I'm into earth magics, and "Wiccan" is a term I answer to, yes. I do.

Pretty much the same way I see Christian prayers work.

But I also see both 'not' working, or working in completely different ways than how the petitioner expects.

[(Anonymous)]

Think of it like the "power of prayer" in other religions.

[mekkio]

I think "spells" are just more or less ritual prayers. Some people use prayer beads or spin prayer wheels, others cast circles.

[(Anonymous)]

"Do you, OP, believe that you can cast spells, and that they work?"

OP - Yes, and no. No I don't believe I can cast spells Harry Potter style, but in Wicca spells are sort of like prayers, only with more ritual involved. It also involves the raising and release of energy, which we believe can affect things like conscience (and here I should probably pause a moment and say this is just how I personally describe spell work, and another Wiccan may see it, or explain it another way all together - in other words, not trying to speak for all Wiccans here, we're all individuals with our own take on things).

Okay, now that I've gotten the disclaimer out the way - say, for example, I want to do a spell to get a job. I create sacred space, do an appropriate ritual, raise power/energy (usually done through dancing, drumming, chanting, breathing exercises, and the like), and then release that energy out into the universe with my intent, in this case 'I intend to get a job'. So then maybe when I go to an interview, I remember the ritual, I remember the shift in consciousness I felt, I feel more confident as a result, I'm not as nervous, I ace the interview, I get the job. Same as a Christian might pray for a job, and go to an interview feeling more relaxed because they have faith that God will do right by them, and that shows through in their interview style, and they get the job. Does that make sense? It's not 'magic' like wave a magic wand and *poof* something happens, but it is magic from the point of view that we're using energy to bend or shape things to our will (will in this context meaning 'want').

Generally speaking, when it comes to our 'will' or what we want, many Wiccans, including myself, follow the guidelines of "For the good of the all, for the good of others, for the good of ourselves" - meaning we work for the good of the universe and the planet before anything, then we work for the good of others, and finally we work for the good of ourselves. Also intent in magic really is everything. Just to go back to the 'spell to get a job' example, say I did the ritual, raised energy, and all that, but in the back of mind I'm thinking 'I know I really need a job right now, but I really don't want this particular job, I'm only going for it because I'm broke and desperate', then chances are I'm going to carry that to the interview, I'm going to be silently hoping the spell hasn't really worked, I'm probably going to be nervous as hell, and completely screw the interview up - end result, no job.

I hope I've been able to explain that properly. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'm not like an expert or anything, but I've followed the Wiccan path for the last 24 years (since I was 16) and I'm always happy to answer people's queries as best I can. :)

[(Anonymous)]

"Same as a Christian might pray for a job, and go to an interview feeling more relaxed because they have faith that God will do right by them,"


Um. Pretty sure that is the exact opposite of how a Christian is to pray for/about things, imo. "Thy will be done" &c. Also, sometimes the "right" answer is no.....

[(Anonymous)]

Why on earth are you treading on eggshells? Any mainstream religion would get shredded around here, but Wicca (completely invented in the 20th century btw and not an ancient survival from the Burning Times, whatever ahistorical dross they feed themselved) is somehow spared?

Odd.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Yes, invented in the 20th century by Gerald Gardner, drawing from a variety of sources, including Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templis Orientis and Thelema. Wicca is a reconstructionist neo pagan belief system, not an unchanged, forever existing since the stone age kind of deal. As for the so called 'Burning Times', the vast majority of people who lost their lives during the witch hunts were actually Christian, innocent people caught up in a heap of superstitious fervour, and nonsense, a large part of it being fueled by a combination of fear and greed. And the numbers of people who died during the witch hunts has been grossly overstated at one time or another.

As for anyone walking on eggshells, I didn't see it that way, I just thought the commenter was being polite, same as I would be when asking someone of a different faith if they could explain something about their beliefs - just common courtesy.

[(Anonymous)]

Anon sounds respectful regardless of the religion in question (note their example about Judaism), unlike those who would "shred" it. There's no need for you to be rude.

[(Anonymous)]

lol Butthurt Christian is butthurt Want some holy water for the burning flames of butthurt? Perhaps a cross would feel better

[(Anonymous)]

I would say that spellcasting has very little to do with actual wicca (though it is definitely the draw). Wicca is a religion with its own system of deity (lifted and adapted, but distinct) and rituals that may seem like witchy-woo spells but really aren't.

The main reason why wicca never appealed to me was because I'm not a dualist. If/once people move past the fluffy bunny phase (and then the reflexive hdu phase) it really becomes about the connection with the earth and deity, the lord and lady, etc.

(The connection between wicca and witchcraft annoy me, but because I'm tired of seeing all the herbalism&c stuff wind up being tired and recycled wicca stuff which I disagree with.)

[(Anonymous)]

For Wiccans, its generally a very ritualized form of prayer, like everyone else said.

Other faiths and paths have their own forms of "magic", too, which can take the form of various kinds of divination (tarot, astrology, scrying, runegaldr, casting stones, etc.), meditation and trance work (seidr, "shamanism", the use of flying ointments, etc.), kitchen and hedge witchery, alchemy, kabbalah, creating magical talismans, and all sorts of other things that are often very tradition-specific.

Most of the time, spells are as much about getting yourself in the right frame of mind for something as they are about changing the rest of the universe. For example, if I make a talisman of emotional protection, I'm wearing it as a reminder to myself to keep my guard up and not let things get to me, more than I'm assuming the universe is going to heed my painted rock on a string and not send any assholes my way. I don't personally know any serious practitioners who don't think their work is 99% placebo effect and subjective validation. They operate under the knowledge that the placebo effect can be very powerful, and that things like tarot readings can help people make sense of messy situations.

[pelespen]

I like you, OP. Your secret, and your comments here. That said, it's been so long since I watched the series, I can't really remember much of Willow's trip to England and rehab and stuff. Now I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch, darn.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Aw, thank you so much, what a lovely comment to receive. :)

Season 7 of Buffy definitely wasn't on my top favourite's list, I wish they would have spent a bit more time on Willow's rehab, her learning the true essence of magic, the connectedness of the earth, the spark of divine in everything around us, and so on.

Out of all the seasons 5 and 6 are my favourites. I know season 6 gets a lot of hate, at least from what I've seen, but I personally loved it - although I wish Tara didn't have to die, or if she did that it was a magical death, and after Willow had gone all Darth Rosenberg and almost destroyed the world, she finally realised that and bought Tara back. I loved Willow and Tara together. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Willow had a lot of power and natural talent but she was a horrible mind-raping Wiccan.

There, that's my secret. She sucked when she had power, abused people who trusted her, and she was old enough to know better when she did it all.

I will never understand people who admire her or identify with her.

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Agreed, she was totally on a power trip 'look how bad arse I am' kinda deal with Wicca for a good portion of the show. Tara was the one who really had it together, but Willow was so full of her own self created identity as this big bad, numero uno Wiccan that she wasn't prepared to listen to Tara's reasoning.

Don't get me wrong, I love the character of Willow, but as a Wiccan I don't admire or identify with her. I just think her story arc in regards to her journey with Wicca a was a realistic one, sans the insta!magic of course. I have come across a lot of teens who did start out all 'OMG, this is so awesome, I can do all these really neat spells, like making this guy/girl I fancy like me, and I can be all cool and mysterious, and now that I'm Wiccan I'm totes this bad arse rebel, because NEVER AGAIN THE BURNING TIMES!!!111' etc etc. And invariably when someone with more experience in the craft tries to explain to them that there are certain things they need to learn and understand first, that person tends to be either dismissed or shot down in flames (just like Willow did with the Wicca group when she dismissed them as a bunch of 'wanna blessed be's'). That is until the teenager, if they stick with Wicca, has actually been in the craft for a while and they come to realise that 'hey, you know all that stuff that those older, more experiences Wiccans were trying to teach me, that stuff is actually pretty important and I need to pay more attention and learn' - just like Willow finally did when she went to England with Giles to study with the Devon Coven.

If anything, for the most part, I think Willow is a realistical example of how not to travel the Wiccan path. I'd have no problem using her story arc in Buffy as a teaching aid for young Wiccans who are just starting out, as a way to illustrate why its important to learn stuff they might think is boring or irrelevant, because they're amping to get to the cool stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

I just wish they'd dealt with those issues beyond "she's addicted to magic like it's crack" and "if her girlfriend dies she'll just go completely batshit." I don't mind characters changing, I mind them changing in ways that don't really make sense.

Then again, Season Six was really just one big Very Special Season. Don't hide depression from friends, don't have weird sex with vampires, don't shoplift, don't do drugs magic..

She is

[(Anonymous)]

the best wicca I've seen on tv or movies. Although I can't remember anyone else who stood out positively like her.

Magic = Addiction storyline?

[(Anonymous)]

Genuinely curious of your thoughts on the 'addiction' arc. It left a very bad taste in my mouth, tbh. :/


(Full disclosure: Raised Catholic, now non-denominational Pagan)

Re: Magic = Addiction storyline?

[(Anonymous)]

OP

Yeah the whole 'magic addiction' thing was very hokey. I wish they'd gone a bit of a different and had her going more on an interpersonal power trip, wanting to define herself by the fact that she was Wiccan, and that's what gave her power and identity as a person, and then thinking she was doing good when really she was harming herself and those around her without even really realising it, because she was too caught up in her self imposted importance. They could have even worked in her self esteem issues, and still not have had to have made it into a stereotypical (and hackneyed) 'I can't believe it's not heroin' trope.

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly just loved all the bake sales, because that's totally how student activities work IRL. You join thinking you're going to save the planet, but really you just stock up on brownie mix.

[(Anonymous)]

This isn't fandom-related, but it just gets my goat, so.

As someone who isn't Wiccan and isn't interested in becoming Wiccan, I can't attest to your comments about what "the essence of what Wicca [...] is really all about." However, spellcrafting is not about that to all spellcrafters. Whatever someone who works magic chooses to call themselves, it's not... I mean ffs, you can be a monotheist and do magic. You can be atheist and do magic. You can be secular and just do magic without it being about the moon's phases or the earth.

So. Yeah. I haven't seen Buffy, don't particularly care to, won't know anything about the character in question. But please don't make generalizations about magic and spells.

I don't know what assumptions people make about Wicca in fandom, but I'm sorry that's what prompted you to make this a secret. You should feel safe enough to talk about religion with your friends!

[(Anonymous)]

You're not Wiccan, not interested in Wicca, and not a Buffy fan? Why the hell are you trying to correct the OP? Within their parameters, assuming that they follow the Gardnerian tradition or similar, the secret makes sense.

Magick in Wicca is generally considered to be highly religious, which is why many upthread were comparing it to prayer in Christianity. You can certainly do spells with very little religion but spells are considered more effective otherwise. Religion in Wicca usually involves a dualistic Deity, of which the female part is often called Gaia or simply the Goddess. That's just how magick in Wicca is understood.

The OP made it very clear they were talking about Wicca, not other religions that use magic, so no generalization of non-Wiccan magic or spellcasting is being made. You coming in here is like a Christian telling a Muslim talking exclusively about prayer in Islam is making generalizations just because the Islamic understanding doesn't apply to Christianity. And that's just stupid.