[ SECRET POST #2293 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 105 secrets from Secret Submission Post #328.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

Ugh. I hate the way that the Doctor and River treat each other.

Like in "The Wedding of River Song" when the Doctor berates River and tells her that she embarrasses him? And then River tells the Doctor that he embarrasses her in "The Angels Take Manhattan"?

[fenm]

Yeah... why did these two get married? They seem to honestly irritate and annoy each other more than anything. Is this really Moffat's idea of a good relationship?

[fauxkaren]

Well they got married because River was obsessed with the Doctor due to being brainwashed to kill him as a child and then subsequently she grew up to study him academically. And therefore after meeting him twice, she loved him enough to let the universe die for him.

And so the Doctor married River to... placate her, I guess? So that she wouldn't let the universe be destroyed?

IDEK.

GOD THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS A DISASTER.

[(Anonymous)]

Waaaaiiiit...was the Wedding really the first time she met him after Let's Kill Hitler? I thought she'd dallied with him on occasion between those two points, either future!him or 200-year-alone-time!him.

[fauxkaren]

I believe so. Because she was studying at university, trying to find the Doctor, when the Silence took her and put her in the astronaut's suit. And it was from that point that the alternate timeline or whatever was created.

[(Anonymous)]

I see. Well, there's nothing to say she didn't develop and become better offscreen in-between the Wedding and A Good Man Goes To War, but conceptually...gah what a mess of feminist and romance fail that entire storyline is.

[fenm]

Well, there's nothing to say she didn't develop and become better offscreen

It's Moffat's job to develop his characters (and River is very much his character--not only did he create her, but she's only ever in episodes he writes) and make them better on screen. If he can't do that, the audience is under no obligation to assume it happens off screen.

[(Anonymous)]

The wedding of river song made me more angry then any WHO finale ever had before. I'm not sure I can even explain my expression while watching it, and after I was done I vowed to never watch it again.

Like it was the final nail in the coffin of River's character assassination.

And all that bullshit Moffat fed us about River being this big mystery and the mystery was more then her just being the Doctor's wife and guess what she ended up being? The Doctor's fucking wife.

But it was such more worse then just being the Doctor's wife because she had no identity of her own and the Doctor treated her like absolutely shit and was condescending to her on the same damn day that they get married.

Like I can't. I just can't.

[fenm]

Also being Amy and Rory's kid, which I (and MANY others) figured out months before (during "The Impossible Astronaut", in my case). Seriously, I kept waiting for there to be more, because... because Moffat couldn't be making such a mystery out of something so damn obvious that most fans I heard from had guessed it already... could he?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah that too. Honestly Moffat stretched out River's "mysteries" way too long so it got too easy for fans to guess what was up with her.

Which might not have even been an issue but then so much time and energy was put into River's story for series 6 and then it just ended up being a mess.

[fenm]

Honestly Moffat stretched out River's "mysteries" way too long so it got too easy for fans to guess what was up with her.

It's not even that, though. There were people who guessed she was the Doctor's wife in her FIRST story. And, again people figured out her being Amy and Rory's daughter way early, too. It's not a matter of him stretching them out too long (well, yeah, he did do that; but that's not why so many people guessed them), it's a matter of them being really obvious in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

True, River being the Doctor's Wife was about everyone's first guess. I suppose I was also just thinking that the stretched out story made it more annoying that it was really obvious.

And the long storytelling made it so even if someone hadn't guessed it, if they spent more then 5 seconds in fandom then they knew everyone else's guess.

[(Anonymous)]

I think Moffat confirmed that she would turn out to be his wife early on, before he even took over as show runner. I didn't think that was the big twist, being the child of Amy and Rory was clearly meant to be the thing. I just thought it was all a bit creepy and badly handled. I don't get why Rory and Amy were never bothered about where their child was or what happened to her, and finding out she went to school with you, that's just weird.

Alex Kingston is the best actor on the show though, she was marvellous in that role.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually didn't care if it was obvious, I cared about how much the payoff mattered. As the canon plot points stand, even if he'd written it in a really subtle sneaky way with plenty of slight of hand that made the revelation a jaw-dropping twist no one saw coming, I'd still not care because the payoff is...she's the Doctor's wife. She's Amy and Rory's daughter. Okay, and this matters and is a big important meaningful thing that is important because...? It's hardly "Mr. Saxon".

[fenm]

I actually didn't care if it was obvious, I cared about how much the payoff mattered.

I see your point, but I disagree, mainly because the show spent so much damn time on it. It's like watching a murder mystery where you've guessed the killer and are waiting for the character to catch up. You just get frustrated, and want them to figure it out so they can get on with the plot already.

Okay, and this matters and is a big important meaningful thing that is important because...?

Now, that I do agree with. How does her relationship with any of these people change anything? Even her being the Doctor's wife really changes NOTHING about their relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

Like in "The Wedding of River Song" when the Doctor berates River and tells her that she embarrasses him?

Oh...I hated "The Wedding of River Song" but I actually really liked that line. It was very "It's my honor, Wilf", the idea that not only is he willing to die for the universe, he finds it insulting or impugning on his personal honor, and therefore humiliating, for the universe to be put in danger because he's being stopped from saving it.

Maybe it was a bit jerky to River, but she was acting like a selfish asshole and I'm not really all that invested in their relationship.

[poisonarcana]

THIS. River turned into a selfish monster in TWoRS, and frankly, she deserved much, much more than the all-too-brief talking-to (and the life sentences at the Stormcage where she breaks out for hair appointments and birthdays or whenever else she feels like it) she got for endangering EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING IN THE UNIVERSE, INCLUDING HER PARENTS.