fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2301 ]

[ SECRET POST #2301 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2301 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry for lateness, had internet issues.

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03. http://i33.tinypic.com/qxkmet.jpg

Man, I hate Reverend Tim Tom's songs...

I've never seen either of the shows you mention, OP, but you should totally check out Rev.

It is always amazing when existence of good people of all kinds is reflected in fiction. This applies both to individuals as such and individuals as representatives of various social groups.

I'm an agnostic atheist, I find religion bizarre and creepy, and I'm still happy when there are likable religious characters in something I read/watch/listen to.

Lewis is my most recent discovery of something that has a protagonist believer in it (although, granted, Life Born of Fire makes the effect religion had on him a bit questionable)

I agree that they deal with religion well... though I wish they'd deal with politics better, too. And race, for that matter.

For reasons that aren't clear to me, Pastor Jim from that one scene in Supernatural is my favorite representation of religion, like ever.

Haven't seen these shows but I completely get what you're saying and agree.

I always look forward to scenes with Father Mike. I like his style :}.

And Tim Tom just cracks me up because I mean come on...how can you hear 'Tim Tom' and NOT laugh?

Agreed on both counts.

I was going to say something about Father Ted doing the same thing for me and whatnot but then I realised, I'm not sure any of them are particularly religious either...

I appreciate that, too. I'm not religious now, but I grew up in a moderately religious family. The churches I went to were accepting of everyone (one of the priests for quite a bit of my youth was openly gay and fought for LGBT rights with his long-term partner). I know this isn't the case for everyone, but I know a lot of religious people who've done a whole lot of good.

However, I have friends who are basically convinced that religion is inherently bad and the cause of awful things (when for me it's just the excuse, that most of the terrible things in history related to religion would have happened in one way or another, but with a different excuse).

That priest sounds awesome, and I'm glad you have been fortunate enough to have good experiences. I completely agree with your last point--people who say religion is the root of all evil confuse the hell out of me; if anything is "the root" of evil, then it's definitely human nature.

Yeah; and for sure there have been awful people in religion who have done awful things. I just think that thus saying all religious people are bad is not great, either.

Yep. A bad person will be a bad person no matter what they believe (or don't believe).

That last bit is bothersome to me, as well, largely because I think it leads people to have incredibly unrealistic expectations. They think that if they can just get enough people to give up their religion, then a whole host of social problems will just disappear. Well, not only is that not true, but it's also logically unsound: if religion is entirely man-made, then those bits of it that reinforce hateful or bigoted or problematic views were created by people who already held those hateful or bigoted or problematic views. And if such views necessarily exited pre-religion, then there's no reason to expect them to disappear post-religion.

^ Yeah this. Also demanding a person give up their religion if they aren't actually bothering anyone is...well terrible.

I grew up with somewhat conservative Christian parents. But my parents really focused on the "love thy neighbor" part, when I was a little girl my mom would remind me that "God loves you". When I was going through a problem with OCD and had disturbing intrusive thoughts that related to religion -I talked about them with my parents. They reassured me I wasn't a bad person and it wasn't my fault I had these things in my brain, that they were just thoughts.

Even now when I grew older they want me to make my own choice to go to church rather than do it because I was forced. If people use religion as a weapon that's the fault of the people. IIRC there were people like that in the Bible...Jesus told them they were doing it wrong every time they gave him trouble.

Some people use blind obedience to religion as a substitute for independent thinking, but in the absence of religion there's nothing keeping them from blindly obeying something else or any guarantee they'd be any good at independent thinking. :-(

Religion can be a very powerful tool for good or evil. Like dynamite.

SA

No, sorry, dynamite's a bad comparison, it only destroys. Some tool that can destroy or sustain?

Water?

It can be very sustaining and useful for life, but people have also been known to drown in knee-high puddles.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this.

Plus, I think the "no religion any more" scenario is an unrealistic one.
Just as there have always been skeptics, there have always been superstitions and spirituality in some form or another. And there probably always will be. (Tbh, I think it's possible some people are neurologically "wired" to be more spiritually inclined than others, but I'll have to look up some studies on that and get back to you.)

Even if people didn't have religion, they'd probably substitute it for something else.

Shoot, there was this great book I was reading awhile back, I think it was called "The Science of Belief." Something like that. And it was just talking about all the various superstitions and residual spirituality that even skeptics still practice without even regarding it as such. Things like the piano John Lennon wrote "Imagine" on touring around the troubled places in the country (like post-Katrina New Orleans) and it being a big deal to see it, touch it, or play it, even though physically it isn't any different from a piano of the same make. Or how folks wouldn't share drinks with someone who was sick, but they might still kiss their partner or loved ones with the reasoning of "their germs won't make me sick." Just a lot of little things that add up.

I mean, I am Christian, so I always get happy when I see Christian characters who are portrayed as good, decent people who are bolstered by their faith instead of using it as a cudgel (characters like Father Mulcahy from M*A*S*H and Michael from Dresden Files). Anywho...

That's pretty fascinating. You see it with totalitarian regimes, as well, and the deification of leaders, like Stalin and Lenin. You could almost make the case there's a "deification" of some celebrities as well.

I'm a Christian, too! :)

I get why a lot of atheists get pretty pissed off at religion (and I agree with them, tbh - I don't think religious organizations should be exempt from the law.)

But I think a lot of debates create this dichotomy between "science" vs "religion", and "Christianity" vs "atheism", and there's no grey area.
I see science and religion as different ways of looking at the world; not opposing forces constantly at war. Personally, I don't find conflict between evolution and science, and my own religion.

There's also this assumption that some people make, that if you're religious, you can't think. You're stupid and dumb and a mindless sheep. And that annoys me. I've spent years thinking about my beliefs and questioning things; it's a constant process. Doubt, for me, is a really important part of faith - it's a bit like pruning a plant as it grows.

It's not something I'm particularly proud of but I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to religious people... it's not that I think they don't think. It's that I think they don't want to think (when it comes to some things).

I don't know how fair that is and am relatively sure that's my own perception coloring things.

I just know how much I would love to have something to believe in. Sometimes its just scary that there aren't any grand answers at all or feeling of faith for me. So when it comes to the meaning of life and what happens after death, justice, etc., etc. I think for religious people it is easier to just have faith and not have to think about it.

And I know a lot of religious people say having faith is difficult but this might be one of those times where you can't really understand how difficult not having faith can be, even when ultimately you don't want it.

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As someone who lives in New Zealand, where gay marriage has just been legalized, it was nice to see on the news that coverage was given to the many (male and female) priests/ministers/churches/etc that were supportive of gay rights and celebrated the change in law.

There needs to be better representation of pastors in general in media. Most of them are essentially just everyday people who spent 4 years in a post-graduate university to study religion.

My dad's a Lutheran minister who rarely goes without making at least one reference to pop culture. The sermon he did that was basically just analyzing the Toy Story trilogy (Including playing Jessie's song) with a Christian point of view is still my favorite.

When he was still young and fit enough to do such things, he was involved in pseudo-LARPing, for crying out loud. It was his method of outreach, by simply being an understanding and approachable but still very Christian person in the midst of pagans, druids and atheists.

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