fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2317 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2317 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #331.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Given the setup of the episode he already knew she was going to break her wrist - that was already a given. It was going to happen no matter what he did. If he stayed it would have been HIM breaking her wrist. So basically he was fucked either way.

Argue that writing of the episode was over the top and ridiculous if you want - I'll probably agree with you. But I'm not agreeing to the idea that the Doctor was a dick given the set up of the episode.

But I'm not agreeing to the idea that the Doctor was a dick given the set up of the episode.

Sorry, but yes, he was. He lashed out at an innocent person--a person who was also scared, btw, and with far more reason, seeing as she was personally in actual peril at the time he was yelling at her--because he was upset, in a circumstance he could have EASILY fixed.

Had the Doctor read the book, he would have known about the wrist, but he ALSO would have known that the circumstances weren't as dire as he thought and he might have, I dunno, been nice to the woman he supposedly loves as she stands there trapped by a Weeping Angel, and again after she'd broken her wrist to free herself. Hell, even if he'd been there, and ended up being responsible for it, he would have been there for her, helping her, instead of LITERALLY adding insult to injury. She also wouldn't have felt the need to hide it from him later.

He already knew about her wrist and yes it fucking was as dire as he feared! THAT THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT! I don't get where you think reading the book would have changed anything other than to confirm his fears that the worst was going to happen.

yes it fucking was as dire as he feared!

And are you saying that the Doctor being upset justifies him lashing out as River?

No, I'm saying there was a reason why he was upset and lashing out. That was my point at the start of the thread. That he wasn't being a dick just to be a dick - which is why I didn't think it was all that bad to start with. I will have to watch the episode again to confirm but I'm not even sure about how much he actually lashed out.

Also I'm sure if he'd stayed and the only option really was to break her wrist to get her free, this secret would probably still be about how he was a dick in this scene. So yeah, basically fucked either way.

I disagree. If he had stayed with her and determinedly tried to help her get out intact until finally realizing that nothing was going to work and he was running out of time and couldn't dawdle any longer, and then helped her break her wrist carefully and as painlessly as possible, that would have been painfully sweet and heartwarming/heartbreaking.

Also, if he had offered to help her and River had instead thrown him out insisting she could do it herself, that would also have been a good route to take.

... possibly...

I think I'm hung up on the "THE DOCTOR WAS A DICK" of everyone's reactions, when it feels like that's not taking into consideration everything that was happening in that scene. And the part where he leaves happened very quickly - he freaked out about the chapter title and that's when he ran out telling River she had to free herself without breaking her wrist to change the future. Yes, I'm reading the transcript - http://www.chakoteya.net/doctorwho/33-5.htm - which not the same as seeing it but it fits what I remember of it too.

I think the main issue isn't that he made her break her wrist, it's the way he yelled at her for it and refused to help her and stormed out and was generally so insensitive about it. There was nothing stopping him from either a) staying with her and helping her do it or b) if he couldn't waste time doing that, being nice about asking her to please try to find some way to get out intact.

Or, if Moffat wanted to show him freaking out and being dickish for a moment due to stress, which is understandable, having someone snap at him for it and tell him not to be so childish, instead of having River sopping about how you shouldn't let him see the damage and how it's totally her and Amy's job to treat the 1200 year old hyper-evolved world-saving genius alien - who is still pretty mentally competent even after losing his entire family and killing his species and going through genocidal wars, among the various hellish things he's endured - like a delicate little cranky toddler who needs to be coddled, and all that bullshit. Really, it's more the context of the action than the action itself.

[ SECRET POST #2317 ]

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"

Re: Major spoilers for "The Angels Take Manhattan"