[ SECRET POST #2321 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2321 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #332.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/GxataAq.png

[dreemyweird]

If you can't defend one character without tearing down another, I think you're doing it wrong.

[greenvelvetcake]

This. It doesn't just apply to female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I just think that makes you a bad fan. Not always a bad feminist.

[kaijinscendre]

Why? Some people hate certain characters. While I firmly believe you shouldn't tag your hate or go into that character's comm just to complain about them, if you wanna bitch about them, go ahead.

Man look at that run-on sentence. :

[(Anonymous)]

not OP, but I think bitching about characters vs tearing down a character as evidence why your fav is the best are two different things.

[kaijinscendre]

Ah okay. I did not realize that the OP was saying that you are using one character as evidence. I thought it was just like. I LOVE CHARACTER B! Then a day later, Man I hate Character 1.

[intrigueing]

I think someone who can't praise any character without tearing down another is a lousy fan and a lousy consumer of fiction. Not just female characters. But it's especially noticeable with female characters -- people going on about how ~feminist~ a female character is by completely defining her by the ways in which she's better than another female is pretty ewww.

Also? GREAT choice of bg pic, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

1. AGREED. And it's not just 'bashing is bad regardless of gender,' even though that's true. The point of feminism is to respect women's agency and choices. If your 'feminist' commentary is that woman X is doing it rite and woman Y is doing it WRONG, then that is basically the opposite of feminism. Now, in fiction, you can definitely critique the way some women are written to align with gross tropes, but that shouldn't be confused with attacking the character herself.

2. It bugs the shit out of me that the fallen chess piece here is the King, not the opposing Queen.

[(Anonymous)]

Thats not the point of feminism tho

jfc read a book and discard that I choose my choice rubbish

[(Anonymous)]

What the fuck are you even talking about.

Also, "read a book"? You do realize that there are millions of books on feminism which encompass a really wide range of ideas, many of which are totally contradictory, just like any social movement?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh hey radfem!anon. I'll bite.

What books would you recommend, then? Or do you have a convenient summary of what you believe feminism is? Because "respecting women's agency and choices" is a pretty broad description that encompasses several schools of thought within the feminist sphere. To the point that I'm pretty sure if that's not even a part of your particular feminist ideology, you are doing far more harm than good to women's rights in general.

[(Anonymous)]

Please explain to me how "respecting women's agency and choice" is not feminist.

[(Anonymous)]

Zie didn't say it wasn't feminist. Zie said it wasn't the point of feminism.

There are many feminists - and I'm one of them - who feel that politically and actively feminism as a movement should focus on systemic issues and leave the 'I choose choice' individualism rhetoric out of it. While having one's choices curtailed by an oppressive system is a feminist issue, choosing is not in and of itself a feminist act. The glorification of choice (while obfuscating the underlying mechanics)is far more about Western capitalism than about women's empowerment.

Choosing to be a sex worker is not a feminist act. Choosing to be a CEO is not a feminist act. Choosing to be an acrobet is not a feminist act. The reasons behind those decisions and the systems in which they are made are what we should be focussing upon. How empowerfulled the individual feels doing something because she wants to is a by-product, and replaces organised agitation, planning, defined goals, plans of action and theories of politics or social science with an inert cloud of emotivism that's never going to change the world.

[ariakas]

I... don't know, anon. If "woman X" is Ann Coutler, or someone actively campaigning against the rights of other women, I'd say they're "doing it wrong".

It's important to respect women's choices, but also respect them in the same way we respect men's choices: yes, it is also possible for their choices, like men's, so be shitty and not worthy of respect. To think otherwise is either putting women on a pedestal (all women's choices are noble!), or infantilizing them (goood job! you chose something! good girl, gold star!).

I'm no radfem, but I didn't sign up to treat women like they were princesses or idiots. Women can make bad choices too, and they should be criticized for them.

(Though this is just a tangent really: women aren't fictional female characters. When someone criticizes a fictional character, they're criticizing the author... ...unless they're so tremendously stupid they haven't figured out that fictional characters can't "choose" things yet.)

[dragonimp]

I think the difference, though, is to criticize (say) Ann Coulter's choices and actions without saying they make her "less of a woman" or that she "fails" at being a woman.

[sagelazarus]

Well, I mean, I'm not one who shies away from saying that something makes someone "less of a wo/man," but I tend to mean it in the same way that treating people or animals inhumanely, things like that, makes someone "less of a human." Though, I never say that someone 'fails at being a wo/man" because, nah, you're ALWAYS going to be your own gender. I guess it's in the way that someone thinks of someone as a "great wo/man" or a "Terrible person"

I don't know if I'm making any sense and I'm sorry because I"m slightly too damn inebriated.

[ariakas]

I don't know if I agree, but someone who actively works against the rights and freedoms of women certainly fails as a human being, if nothing else.

[dragonimp]

I keyed in on that King-Queen thing, too. Details!

[(Anonymous)]

I presume you're talking about defending characters as characters, rather than defending characters' actions in-universe? Because in the latter case, I'd find it fairly easy to see why someone could defend one woman's actions while tearing down those of a second if, for example, the first woman had opened her family to a second and the second had responded by murdering them in the night or something.

I'm guessing what you're talking about is more "Obviously she's the right woman for this job, she's smart and brave, not like that other bitch", that sort of thing? In which case, I'm in full agreement, yes.

[fleshisyummy]

Agreed. I hate it when people write meta about a female character, and they try to make her seem superior by comparing her to a female character they personally find inferior. I think you can talk about the good points of a character--regardless of gender--without tearing another one down.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Great, now I want to see black queen topping white king chess-piece porn. (ooohlala French Defense!)

[sagelazarus]

Bonus points if the king is transgender

(Now I actually seriously want to see some kingxking porn. There's never enough royalty porn of any kind!)