fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2327 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2327 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Sofia the First]

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[Once Upon a Time]

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[Tara Strong, John de Lancie]

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[Iron Man 3]

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[Cristiano Ronaldo]

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[BriTANick]

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[Teen Wolf]

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[Community]

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[Batman movies (Nolan)]

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[Nine Inch Nails]

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[Harry Potter]

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[Romeo and Juliet, 1968]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

15. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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16. [SPOILERS for Star Trek: Into Darkness]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

17. [repeat]

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18. [WARNING for suicide]

[Supernatural]

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19. [WARNING for non-con]

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20. [WARNING for dubcon]

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21. [WARNING for eating disorders]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #332.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Ok, I'm going to explain a bit as best as I can because it's one of those things deeply ingrained in our culture that it's very hard to get and I'm sensing that you don't mean any disrespect.

Calling a Mexican 'of spanish descent' is a bit worse than calling us 'white'. Even if our parents are spanish and we're first generation born here. Mexicans are deeply patriotic, and there's nothing, nothing more important than being Mexican. If you were born in Mexico, or spend more than 5 years living here, you're a Mexican. And while there's racism in México, it's not the same as in the USA as it's ingrained in clasissm. It doesn't matter if you're dark-brown skinned, if you're rich. Then, you're on the top of the hierarchy. If you're poor, it doesn't matter if you're pasty white. To put it plainly, Ricardo Montalban was darker than I am, and he was way higher than I in the hierarchy in México. And, none of that matters when we're talking about México as a country. We're Mexicans in the end, and when it's our identity in game, all of us, light skinned or dark skinned are still Mexican.

Which is my point. I'm not saying that it was right for him to be casted as Khan, or to take the fact that he was Khan as the reason why it's wrong to have Cumberbatch as Khan now. I'm just saying that please, respect his own self-identity and his culture and don't call him a white actor.

Okay. I'm going to flat out admit (to you and Valour) that I was familiar with black-and-white movie Montalban and "Rich Corinthian Leather" Montalban; I hadn't seen many pictures of him between.

Thank you both very much for explaining all this to me! I just want to be clear--I didn't mean to claim that he wasn't 100% Mexican.

I will say this, though: I'd argue that racism and class are also very deeply connected in the US. There's a reason someone like Obama--whose mom was an anthropologist--can go so far in politics, while the kids from my minority majority high school are far less likely to get similar chances no matter how smart and ambitious they are.

I know you didn't mean any offense, which is why I took my time to explain at the best of my abilities.

And well, now we understand each other :)

Yes, class and racism are connected in the US too but let me put it this way. Our most beloved president was very dark skinned, and when a comedian made a joke of his name (Not a race joke, not an offensive joke. Just a silly joke), he got blacklisted for almost 20 years, unable to get a job. Do you see that happening to someone making fun of Obama with a racist joke? When I mean that at a certain point we don't care for the skin color, I mean we don't care. Which makes very hard to explain american racism to some mexicans, unfortunately.

Mexicans are POC because they are mixed. They have Native American blood. If your family came from Spain, and only has Spanish blood, then no-you are not POC. You're a white Mexican.

I didn't know random people on the internet got to tell other people how they should identify and why.

Again. I'm Mexican. I've lived all my life in Mexico City. I have no idea if I have Aztec blood or not, but that doesn't mean I am not Mexican or that I consider myself white.

Ricardo Montalban was Mexican. He didn't consider himself white.

Isn't that enough for you?

Why is Mexican incompatible with white? Aren't those two concepts that describe two different things? Isn't Mexican a national / political / cultural identifier, whereas white is... well, kind of a nonsense term, but if it's anything, isn't it describing race? Why is it impossible for a white Mexican to exist? That's what I don't understand here - your position seems to be that if someone is white they can't be Mexican, and I don't understand that at all.

(nayrt for what that's worth, and haven't posted anywhere else in this subthread)

As someone else mentioned in this subthread, the thing is that we're talking about 'white' in the sense that USA uses it. And it that sense, with that kind of privileges and advantages, no, we're not white.

It's not about being 'exotic', it's not about 'being special'. It's a national identity. Trying to explain this when things are seen in terms of how USA sees race and racism is very, very hard.

Yes, someone can be white skinned and be Mexican, of course you can. My best friend is mexican and she's white skinned and red haired, and one of my cousins is blonde and green eyed. And they're still mexicans. But they don't have any social advantage over me, light skinned but brown haired, or my best friend of my same age who is brown skinned and with black hair. We're exactly on the same social level, and if we four go to ask for the exact same job, we have the exact same opportunities to get said job. Skin color is not as important in Mexico as its in USA. BUT cultural identity is. And my only beef with all this is that, by calling Ricardo Montalban white by USA standars, people erase his cultural identity. In Mexico no one would call him white because no one would care.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that, if I am not mixed, I cannot be a POC? What if all my ancestors come from ("black") Africa? What if all my ancestors are from the same ethnic ("brown") group from India? Why if all my ancestors are from ("yellow") China?

The way you phrased it seems to imply that the standard is white, and that not being purely white means being mixed.

No problem! I only learned more about him recently, so I figured I'd just pass the info on since I spent so much time reading about it. I also agree with your latter point, but I'm from the US myself, so I've seen both sides (sad to say).

[ SECRET POST #2327 ]

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.

Re: Ricardo Montalban was white.