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F!S Anon Meme (the ??th)

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That's about it, though!

(Today's post is below.)

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Am I the only one who has noticed that there's this huge consensus in fandom that anything and anyone not liberal is evil and should be squashed like a bug? I don't care if people are liberal, but stop assuming everyone who disagrees with you has evil ulterior motives. Not every conservative is Rush Limbaugh.

it makes me roll my eyes a bit because one of the things about being older is that you realize people's political views are nuanced and bipartisanship actually fucking matters

but on the other hand the world o' politics can be extremely frustrating for young american liberals

frankly a country where a centrist president like obama can be unironically called a socialist is a country that leans way the fuck too far to the right

a shitload of older people do this stuff as well (although they're more likely to be doing the same shit from a conservative side instead of a Democratic side)

and the problem isn't so much that we lean to the right as that our discourse and political structure is just totally fucked and dysfunctional

a centrist president like obama

I think I'm going to print out this comment and tack it somewhere, because it's not something I see a lot. Most centrist groups I lurk in call him a liberal (but not a socialist). I've always seen him as a bit more centrist and trying to work with about three options that resemble different types of steaming dung. To see even the centrist part echoed is kind of a rare thing.

I've always seen him as a bit more centrist and trying to work with about three options that resemble different types of steaming dung.

that's basically what it boils down to, sadly

Yeah, it definitely exists. Not everyone thinks that way but a lot of people act that way. It's just the way that politics / culture / culturepolitics works these (esp in America and esp on the Internet). It's unlikely that it's going to change anytime soon when it's (unfortunately) so engrained in the way we talk about shit and the way we interact with the world.

On this view politics is a matter of identifying with some larger cultural group - your political views is understood and expressed as a matter of the kind of person you are and you want to be (and all of these categories are pretty much categories from American culture more broadly - they're not primarily political categories, they're cultural, social, economic). And usually that identification is an identification AGAINST some other group which wants to destroy your group or is at least inimical to it, either passively or more or less actively.

So you have the twin imperatives of reaching for in-group belonging and reacting against out-group threat and you get to this logic where disagreement is impossible without being a bad person and it sucks but it's probably not going to change as long as culture works the way it does.

This is a good explanation.

No it's not, it's pop psychology bullshit without anything to back it.

Do you have an alternate explanation that makes more sense, or just "no it's not"?

I'm not from the US but it strikes me as "evil" to vote for a party who think it's fine to force an uterus bearer to become a baby making machine against their will. Even if you don't share all their views, your vote supports them.

Even if you don't share all their views, your vote supports them.

+1

Well, not American but from what I've seen the representatives of conservatives are pretty 'evil' and I'm not inclined to tolerate them. Especially since some of the recent articles I've seen have made me feel physically sick.
But I also consider your liberals quite conservative and I'm not to keen on them to hahaha.

But my decision is to just ignore you all on the internet unless you say something really fucking dumb to me.

Pre-George Bush, I would've agreed with you. But now? Sorry, no. I realize that not every conservative is Rush Limbaugh, but if you're* going to allow your party to be taken over by repugnant bigots who are down with gays, women and ethnic minorities but a-okay with rape, crazy conspiracy theories and panicking about the poor middle-aged white menz, then you're no better than they are.

Vote out the nutjobs, take back your political party and demonstrate that you can think and behave sanely and then we'll talk.

* Every variation of "you" including and after this one is a general "you".

What's liberal?

Sane, in most cases.

Fandom as a whole doesn't feel left-leaning at all to me. It feels moderate, sometimes with a right-wing leaning. And actually, I often feel like F!S as a community is actually shockingly conservative.

But I'm European, so my definitions of the political left and right are definitely not the US definitions of left and right. In my country, the liberals are a right wing party, because we define liberal as 'believing in a free-market economy'. So the fact that your left is called 'liberal' doesn't even make sense to me.

the dominant political left in the us is probably equivalent to what'd be considered moderate in most european countries

actually liberal american liberals are clustered in tiny groups on the fringes of that and nobody takes them at all seriously

I rather like your clarification of non-US definitions of liberal. It was more coherent and more genuinely informative than one of thoe posts preceding yours (specifially http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/812366.html?thread=657069902#cmt657069902). :-)

Haha, yeah, it's one of those things that causes a lot of misunderstandings on the internet, I think. From what I gather, 'liberal' in the US means socially liberal/progressive whereas in most of Europe it means economically liberal, which is a totally different thing! And wow, that above comment is pretty ignorant and insulting, there's no need for that.

not everyone who disagrees with you has ulterior motives, no, but sometimes their opinions/policies being forwarded would lead to bad things happening despite what their motives are.

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