[ SECRET POST #2352 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2352 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22.


__________________________________________________















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 091 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[cadremage]

The military does more harm than good only when the military and the government are the same entity. When the military is controlled by and operates at the whim of government, then it's ultimately the government, or more specifically government policy, that is doing more harm than good.

In our lifetime, various Western governments have put their respective militaries toward some pretty questionable uses. That makes it easy to be anti-military at present. But that does not mean that the military can never do anything good (with "good" defined here as "protecting the people of its nation"), or that it never has. If a nation is being invaded, or if a group within a nation seriously threatens the liberty of others in that nation (e.g. a group that wants to impose a strict interpretation of religious law on a population and argues its point with violence), then there is some use for an organized military.

Also, it's a common misconception that soldiers are trained to not think for themselves. It's true that they're trained to follow the chain of command, but they can refuse to obey if they're ordered to break the law, and soldiers who don't think for themselves don't get promoted. The real problem isn't a lack of critical thought, or desensitization; it's that violent conflict and trauma change a person in ways that can be absolutely terrible.

[(Anonymous)]

Look what happened/is happening to Bradley Manning for thinking for himself when faced with evidence of military brutality. Fuck the US military, seriously.

Apparently the US military uses the Meyer-Briggs test to sort out personalities. They prefer ISTJs - introverts (less likely to challenge command), sensors (not intuitive, take the world as it is), thinkers (less emotional, more able to kill), judgers (don't think about a decision, just do it). Which makes a lot of sense for an army.

[(Anonymous)]

The US military does not use Meyer-Briggs personality types for anything. Some military schools offer the testing, usually only for senior ranking officers. It's offered in case a service member wants it for their resume because most still have to work for many years after they retire from the military.

[(Anonymous)]

The Bradley Manning affair is not the fault of the military, it's the fault of the whole political system. It wasn't the generals who condemned him; that happened with the enthusiastic support of the entire military political apparatus, inclusive of the White House, the Congress, the intelligence community, and the military. Which, in a lot of ways, just goes to the point that cadremage is making - it's not the military, because the military is still under the command of the civilian authority; it's the civilian authority, ultimately the whole system of decision-making, that is at fault.

I agree that he has been imprisoned unjustly. But the injustice is something that comes from our political system and ultimately the choices that we have made as a political society. It's not the fault of something intrinsic and specific to militaries.

[cadremage]

...whooooa.

First of all, Bradley Manning is being tried for treason. It's the US government that is prosecuting him, not the military itself.

Second of all, that is an oversimplification of the Meyers-Briggs types (I am an INTJ, for purposes of full disclosure). An MB introvert is a person who likes to take time to reflect on information and who re-energizes by spending time alone, not a person who is is less social or less likely to speak up. S/he is no more and no less likely to challenge command than an extrovert. (As another aside, this is also the misconception that gets me the most. I am an introvert, but if you push me to do something that I believe is wrong, you had better believe I will push you back. Hard).

It's true that an MB sensor "takes the world as it is," but only in the sense that s/he is concerned with what's actually happening. That does not mean that s/he will go along with that's happening.

An MB thinker utilizes logic in an effort to be fair, and advocates for the truth even when it's inconvenient. S/he is not less emotional than a feeler, or more able to kill.

An MB judger likes to plan ahead because s/he likes order, and likes for a decision to be made on a course of action. This does not mean that s/he will not think about a decision. Shit, as I well know, if you combine I, T, and J together, you get someone who shreds possible decisions to pieces because s/he wants to make the best one.

I suppose the thing that's getting me here is that you've determined which MB types are "bad," watered them down, and then said, "this makes sense because obviously these types of people would be mindless," but that's not how it works. There are no "bad" MB types; there are simply different ways of perceiving and interacting with the world, and none of those ways makes a person more likely to be turned into a robot.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks. That was one of the worst Meyers-Briggs analyses I've ever seen.

[(Anonymous)]

I do agree with most of what you've said, though I've never said the military never ever did any good. It's just not so common as government would like its people to believe. Military is often lauded as this Force of Good that protects the country and if you don't support the troops 100% you're vile. I really deteste that kind of propaganda and it's pretty rampant these days, even in Canada where military isn't even that big a deal, not compared to the US. Yes, a military can protect a country from invasion and other threats, but it's often used offensively on others instead. It can be used to help other countries but it can also be used to police them as well.

From what I've read and from what I've heard from ex-soldiers is quite different on the matters of desensitization and critical thinking, but it's clearly not a uniform problem in all sections of the military. But it's not exactly unique to my friend's experience; lots of people have spoken about this, studies and articles have been written lots about it. I didn't come to this opinion from television or anything, since I hardly even watch films/shows that involve modern military in the first place.

Thanks for the interesting response. It's nice to see a legitimate reply with an argument rather than just have someone mock a post they disagree with.

[cadremage]

I don't believe that military operations (or, for that matter, military expenditures) should be immune from criticism, and I don't disagree that current propaganda is a bit ridiculous. I do, however, think that it's all ultimately the result of various political agendas. Military operations are often begun to achieve political ends; military expenditures often have more to do with cutbacks (contractors --> lobbyists --> campaign funding --> (re)election) than with actual needs; propaganda buttresses the arguments for the aforementioned political ends and keeps people from questioning them. The military itself can be used for good or for ill, but the force behind it is ultimately the government that controls it.

On the second point, I think you may be correct in your suggestion that it's not the same across all sections of the military. My opinion comes specifically from knowing a lot of Navy men. That branch, for whatever reason, may just value free thought more highly than other branches.