[ SECRET POST #2353 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2353 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Boy Meets World]


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03.
[Firefly]


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04.
[Hannibal]


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05.
[BBC Sherlock]


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06.
[Vocaloid]


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07.
[Dept. Heaven]


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08.
[Roger Federer]


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09.
[Dogma]


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10.
[Yu-Gi-Oh: Bonds Beyond Time]


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11.
[Leonard Nimoy]


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12.
[a song of ice and fire/game of thrones]


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13.
[Dragon Age Origins]


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14.
[Arrested Development]


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15.
[Fall Out Boy]


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16.
[Homestuck]


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17.
[Joss Whedon]


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18.
[Chicago Fire]


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19.
[Homestuck]


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20.
[Final Fantasy VII]


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21.
[Enya]


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22.
[Discworld]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 067 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - IC secret? ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Joss Whedon, the man who defined feminism as women being really strong but still needing a man to watch over them before they could feel complete. Real hero.

[(Anonymous)]

WTF are you on?

[(Anonymous)]

Firefly-River: Strong but needing Simon and Mal to look after her.
Dollhouse-Echo: Strong but needing Boyd to manage her.
BuffytVS-Buffy: Strong but needing Giles/Angel/Spike/ to look after her.

Seeing a pattern there?

[(Anonymous)]

Firefly - Kaylee (traveled space as a mechanic because she wanted to), Zoe (warrior who had a husband that more relied on her, or was equal than the other way around), Inara (problems with "whores" aside, she was still strong and independant).

Dollhouse - Adelle who didn't need anyone, Echo sure as hell didn't need Boyd to manage her (have you even seen the second season?), Mellie whos motivation was her daughter, not a man.

Buffy - Xander, Willow, Giles all had Buffy look after THEM. She didn't need Angel or Spike to look after her at all, they rarely came to her rescue, and Faith sure as hell didn't need anyone. Willow didn't have a man as a motivation after seaon 4.

Seeing a pattern there? no? Maybe its that you just don't get it. There is more than one type of character in his shows. There is more than one type of representation. Maybe whedon shows didn't teach YOU that its ok to be a lady and not rely on a man, but it actually was pretty intergral to my thinking that.

[(Anonymous)]

River needed Simon because the government massively fucked up her amygdala. She didn't need anyone by nature; she was just injured and Simon was her brother and loved her dearly. Have you seen Serenity? She gives back and protects him in return.

I've never seen Dollhouse, but Buffy didn't NEED Giles/Angel/Spike to look after her. She enjoyed having GIles's counsel because he had a different perspective, but when she disagreed with him she almost always went by her own decisions.

Honestly, your examples are shiiiiiit.

[(Anonymous)]

River needed Simon because the government massively fucked up her amygdala. She didn't need anyone by nature

How is this an argument? The decision to make her need to be rescued and looked after because "the government fucked up her amygdala" is no less deliberate than needing to be rescued and looked after by nature would have been. It's a work of fiction, this isn't shit that literally happened that Joss Whedon was just chronicling for historical purposes.

Honestly I don't really have a horse in this race, but this type of argument comes up constantly on F!S -- "well, it wasn't their fault that they wrote that because they had to because of the way they consciously structured the story so that they would have to write that" -- and it's always stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

No, it IS important that it's not by her nature, because the things that happened to her could very well happen to anyone, and they did happen to other children, some of which were not girls. It's not a situation revolving around her gender. It's not linked whatsoever to her being a woman. She's not dependant because she possesses a vagina; she's dependent because people have seriously harmed her, and even then, she grows independent once again despite all the damage they tried to inflict upon her.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

You're sort of forgetting that all these circumstances that justify why she's damaged and dependent is written into the character background by Joss Whedon. Which, hello, is exactly what people are talking about.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not forgetting. It would be important to note if all or most his female characters were subjected to this sort of thing, but they're not. All his characters are put through trials of different sorts, none being *special* for women. Therefore there's not much of an argument that Whedon writing River as being abused by the government has much at all to do with her being a woman.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I might be willing to buy that. How many male characters have backgrounds of sexual trauma or experienced sexualized violence at the hands of the opposite sex as their "trial"?

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Xander Harris, for one. Lost his virginity to Faith without really having time to process what was happening and give or withold consent, then was later nearly choked to death by her in an extremely sexually suggestive situation.

Re: NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I guess you deserve some credit for having the chutzpah to reply when your counterargument to "Joss Whedon loves to write female characters with histories of sexualized violence" is "But he did it for one dude too so everything's totally balanced, amirite?"