[ SECRET POST #2358 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2358 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

Not really? I'm not talking about non-linear stuff by itself -- that's a big part of the show. I mean that "timey wimey" is not a sufficient complete explanation anymore because it's been overused so many times so frequently in the past three seasons. It just gets lazy, like RTD's repeated "HEY MOAR DALEKS".

And of course the Doctor lies quite a bit - I was never debating that. I meant that only Eleven and Seven (I mentioned Seven in my first comment, btw) lie for no reason. Lying was never some ridiculous "rule" for him like Moffat's pretending it was in order to get out of writing actual logical character motivation for him to lie -- One lied to Ian and Barbara all the time because he didn't trust them, Nine lied to Rose to trick her into safety, etc. But Moffat tries to pretend that the Doctor lies about everything for no reason, and that he's always done so, and pretend that it's some kind of "rule" for him so if a viewer asks "but why didn't the Doctor tell them that _____?" he can just go "the Doctor lies!" instead of "well, he decided to lie about that because [insert reasons here]".

You seem to be exaggerating my complaints a tad overmuch. I'm annoyed at easy, lazy explanations that don't require any logical character motivations. I am not annoyed simply about lying or non-linear plots.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you are annoyed that you aren't the showrunner and worse that Steven Moffat is having the sheer audacity to not consult you or do as you order him.

Every era has had its prop that it overuses a bit much. Why are you even in fandom anyway if you dislike the show so much? Go watch BGT or Game of Tits instead. Bug their fandom for a decade or so.

[intrigueing]

Yeah, every era does have a prop it overuses a bit too much. Doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize them. Like I said above, "it happened before" =/= "it's a good thing".

And I don't outright dislike the show. I love the show. I just have a lot of problems with this one particular era, and the only reason I bother criticizing it is because there's a lot of good stuff about it that could have been better without the bad things, and I firmly believe criticism is a good thing that is useful, constructive, and helps avoid repeating the same mistakes. Obviously, Moffat won't change due to my one specific opinion, but I'm a drop in the bucket just like everyone else in the fandom :)

[(Anonymous)]

But is Moffat saying ALL previous incarnations of the Doctor were big fat liars, as well? I'm genuinely asking if that's your interpretation because I didn't read it that way.


To my recollection - and I could certainly be wrong. In fact it happens a lot. Also I missed a few of the last episodes in 7b - the only people who have said 'The Doctor Lies' are people who've known 11. And 11 DOES lie all the time so that's how people who know that version of the Doctor would see him. Yes River's met other versions but the Doctor she's familiar with, the Doctor she met when she first 'became' River, is 11. So he's HER Doctor and the one she'd most likely be talking about whenever she says 'The Doctor Lies'. And --- I'm blanking now on which other characters have said that but if they've all been characters who have (mostly) known 11's version of the Doctor, it'd make sense for them to think that. And none of that means Doctors 1-10 were the same way.

[intrigueing]

That is my in-universe interpretation, actually, because that would make sense. And actually, you are probably right. While Moffat's "Rule #1 the Doctor lies" catchphrase IS poorly used and supported all on its own IMO, what irritates me the most about it is the way the fans have started spouting it constantly all over the place to explain things 1-10 have done.

So apologies, I think I criticized Moffat a tad too harshly in my previous comment, since he may not have intended fans to run with it that way. Though phrasing it as "Rule #1" doesn't exactly dissuade them...

[mfirefly10]

No apologies necessary. I've been known to interpret things wrong/forget important bits before so I wanted to know if I was missing something obvious about that rule in Moffat's Who.


I don't know why my first comment posted anon either...weird.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

"But Moffat tries to pretend that the Doctor lies about everything for no reason, and that he's always done so, and pretend that it's some kind of "rule" for him"

Moffat's fond of characters who are sociopaths (who do, indeed, lie about everything for no reason). While that's fine, that's his trademark (he made Sherlock freaking Holmes a sociopath as well), the only problem with that is he made the Doctor a sociopath.

So, either Moffat is incapable of writing multiple characters with different nuances/quirks/features (wasn't there a secret about that here), or he just wants to write a sociopath character into everything he writes, because he thinks it's cool, engaging, nifty, whatever (he's wrong BTW), or he's unconsciously writing every character he drafts as a sociopath. *shrug* Maybe Moffat IS a sociopath himelf?? That would certainly explain a lot, like why he's so in love with sociopathic characters.

Unfortunately for us, this does tend to get repetitive after awhile. Also annoying, in that neither the Doctor nor Sherlock Holmes are sociopaths, and Moffat is doing a grave injustice to both characters by turning them into sociopaths, IMO.

[fenm]

Also annoying, in that neither the Doctor nor Sherlock Holmes are sociopaths, and Moffat is doing a grave injustice to both characters by turning them into sociopaths, IMO.

Except he doesn't really make them actual sociopaths, he just makes them jerks (which I'm more or less ok with regarding Sherlock; canonically Holmes could be a bit cold... the Doctor, otoh...). Calling Sherlock a sociopath just shows Moffat's ignorance and love of buzzwords.

[intrigueing]

That sounds...uncomfortably on the mark, actually. :\ Although as femn mentioned above, he doesn't make them well-researched actual sociopaths who act consistently with such a label.