fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2363 ]

[ SECRET POST #2363 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2363 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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So, let's say there's a show with characters Lisa, Bob, Andrea, Mike, and Karen. On the show, Andrea and Mike are not together. But someone writes a fic where Bob offhandedly mentions that Andrea and Mike ran off together and eloped. Andrea and Mike never appear in the story, and that is the single allusion to their fanon relationship. There are also no romantic interactions between anyone in the fic.

You believe said fic should be labeled Romance?

Why would then even mention that? I wouldn't label it romance. But I'd probably label it that "Multi" thing. Some people hate ships. I don't really mind as long as it isn't a ship I hate, but some people do.

Why is canon any different though? Why is an offhand mention of a pairing that is together in canon any different than a fanon one?

Because some people don't like fanon pairings. I don't like something like....Dean/Lisa. If I was reading a fic, and they mentioned it, it may put me off reading it.

Well, me personally would question why the hell you are mentioning it. Then I would have to scroll through to make sure they are not going to be showing up in the story. Generally, if you mention something like that in a story, it means they are going to be brought back up (like a boring version of Chekov's Gun).

And some people don't like canon pairings. Why does that make a difference?

Because unless you are reading it for a certain fanon pairing, canon pairings are hard to avoid. If Bob and Alice are married in the show, why would they not be married in the fic? Even if the focus is on John, you assume that Alice and Bob are living together. Otherwise, it is an AU story.

But if an offhand mention of a pairing is a problem (which I don't think it is or at least should be) for people who don't like that pairing, then that is equally true for people who don't like a canon pairing. It is a bit of a double standard that puts canon pairings on a higher level. All fanfic by definition is AU, and generally things that actually get labelled AU aren't labelled that way just because of different pairings.

I have no idea what you are on about. Do you NOT want people to mark things with Gen if they have any mention? Or do you>

For me, the line is if there are romantic scenes. Offhand mentions, no matter the pairing, don't make a fic not gen. The instant there are scenes of them being couply, then it is not gen even if the pairing is canon.

(no subject)

kaijinscendre - 2013-06-22 21:59 (UTC) - Expand

What kaijinscendre said, but also because canon pairings are, well - canon. A background mention of a canon ship can be scene-setting. We all already know that that relationship is a fact of the universe we're sharing.

Non-canon pairings (or, say, a canon-pairing but in a fic set at a time when they're not together in canon) is different. It's asking the reader to suspend disbelief and accept as true something that's not part of the shared canon. Some people who don't ship that ship aren't going to want to do that. For those who ship x/z or y/w it'd be annoying on a shipper level. For those looking for gen it's annoying because your ship wasn't what they signed on for.

Not saying that's the only way of defining gen, but it is a difference between canon and non-canon as experienced by a lot of people.

My feeling is that all fic requires that sort of suspension of disbelief, as even the most faithful of fics is still not canon.

I'd argue that shipping is a special case. Shipping is by far the most politicised axis of fanfic, right? I mean, almost all of our archiving is built around it. A lot of fannish migration happens because of similar ship dynamics. Ship wars are more frequent and usually more brutal than any other differences of interpretation. In theory it should be just like any other mutable element of fandom, in practice you'll bother more people with shipping than with even the most egregious of changes to setting or backstory.

Yes, but all that equally applies to canon pairings. Canon pairings are just as polarizing.

na

I overall completely agree with you, but Dean/Lisa is canon and so doesn't count for your argument. :D

If it were, say, Sam/Lisa or Dean/Gabriel being randomly mentioned then yeah, I fully am with you.

Those were the first two names to pop into my head. I didn't realize until afterwards that they were canon. :P

Because people expect canon pairings? Any fanfiction comes with the expectation of canon being mentioned, even the parts of canon you don't like. Random side pairings that come completely out of left field and are entirely the work of the author rather than original canon annoy people.

The level to which it's being taken makes it seem like there's a bunch of people with overly delicate sensibilities running around fandom. But, then again, the use of the word "trigger" kind of demonstrates that.

But why would they automatically expect canon pairings? In fanfic, where anything goes, canon pairings aren't a default. And in fact, in some fandoms, a fanon pairing is expected more to show up than a canon pairing.

Because even in fanfic, "where anything goes," the canon is still the common reference point for everyone involved. It's like if you're writing, let's say, a Law & Order fic, and you happen to mention offhandedly that one of the characters is a werewolf. That's not in the original canon and nobody coming into your fic expects it, and if there isn't any explanation or setup of how or why that person is a werewolf, it's going to throw people out of the story. But if you're writing Harry Potter fic and you mention that Remus Lupin is a werewolf, nobody's going to bat an eyelash, because it's canon. This is true even if the reader doesn't particularly like werewolves.

Non-canon things need more explanation and labeling than canon things, because (even though fanfic is "anything goes") canon shapes what people expect coming in.

This whole discussion is kind of making me start to question the point of fanfiction.

Then you're reading it wrong. The discussion is about the labels on fanfiction.

Why not mention it? They don't appear in the story, and the author thinks, "wouldn't it be funny if..." and tosses it in.

I think labeling a case like that under the "multi" thing would be more misleading to a person looking for fics about a fanon pairing than it would be to a person who doesn't want to read about a fanon pairing. And that's really kind of where the disconnect is for me, I suppose. If I'm into Andrea/Mike, then I'm looking for a story that focuses on them, and I'm gonna be pretty damn disappointed if I read an entire fic where nothing actually happens between them.

Because the author likes that pairing and/or dislikes the canon pairing. If you as an author really hate a canon pairing, and the particular characters in question are going to be in your fic, maybe you want to mention that those characters are together. If you don't actually have romantic scenes between them, then why wouldn't that fic be gen?

If you don't actually have romantic scenes between them, then why wouldn't that fic be gen?

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at.

We are actually agreeing, friend.

Then I guess you and other anon can battle it out. I am assuming you are on opposite sides of the debate. I am not a fanfic guru.

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