Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-06-22 03:41 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-06-22 03:41 pm
[ SECRET POST #2363 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2363 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 118 secrets from Secret Submission Post #337.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-06-23 02:48 am (UTC)(link)It's not because I think canon pairings are better or more worthy or what the fuck ever (I almost never ship canon pairings, so there's no personal bias here). But in fanfic I would think that you come in to it assuming that at least at the start, everything will be consistent with canon, unless it's stated otherwise.
If I read a FFVII fanfic that includes both Aeris and Zack as characters, I expect to see at least one incidental reference to their relationship, in the same way that I expect at least one reference to Cloud's gigantic fucking sword. It's an established fact of the universe, the kind of thing you need to explain if it's not there. Because of that it seems ridiculous for something like that to stop the fic from being gen.
But a casual mention of Cloud and Sephiroth being married isn't quite the same. Nobody expects to see that coming in to a fic, you need an explanation for it. If you don't explain it properly then it's shitty writing, if you do then you're kind of moving out of gen territory by focusing on a romantic relationship.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-06-23 02:59 am (UTC)(link)Depends on how it's done. And using the "established relationship" tag is really all an author needs to do to explain it if they feel like it. AO3's rules are pretty clear that it's up to the author how they want to categorize and tag their work, so this secret and your comment and comments like yours don't really make any sense to me. If you don't like the way someone categorizes or tags something, or the way they don't categorize or tag something, or if you don't like that AO3 allows the creators to control how their work is sorted instead of giving that control to the audience, then you should go somewhere else. Comms on LJ, the pit, forums, wherever you can find fanworks that conform to your ideal of sorting. Otherwise, just deal with it.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-06-23 03:15 am (UTC)(link)Shit, I never even mentioned Ao3, I was just responding to the many people in this post who have claimed that there's no difference between background canon and non-canon pairings in gen fic.
As for "established relationship", in my experience that's still going to involve some background explanation if it's well written. Some pairings need more explanation than others, obviously, but if it's non-canon there's going to need to be SOME, or it'll be OOC imo.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-06-23 03:42 am (UTC)(link)I also disagree that a non-canon relationship HAS to be established in a fic. In fact, I think that can lead to badfic, by forcing the writer to add in scenes that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the fic itself and detract from the quality. I'd much rather read a well-written fic with an established relationship and no explanation for it, than a meh fic that adds in three scenes that do nothing other than explain why A and B are together and have no bearing on the plot. The latter is just plain bad writing.
So long as they say 'established relationship' and 'characterA/characterB' in either the tags or the description, I don't think they have to go into detail. The people who are reading the fic will know it's there, and they can come up with their own explanation as to how it came about. I'm sure most shippers have their own headcanons for that anyway.
"f I read a FFVII fanfic that includes both Aeris and Zack as characters, I expect to see at least one incidental reference to their relationship, in the same way that I expect at least one reference to Cloud's gigantic fucking sword. It's an established fact of the universe, the kind of thing you need to explain if it's not there."
I... actually disagree with this MORE than anything else you've said. If in every single FFVII fic I were to come across mentioned those things, I'd want to tear my hair out. As they're established canon facts, you DON'T have to add them into a fic unless it's changed. Why would I state that the sky is blue, when everyone knows it's blue? The same way, why do I have to state that Cloud's sword is gigantic, when everyone's already aware of that? It's pointless and leads to bad, useless writing. On top of that, some people don't ship Zack/Aeris, and would like to read a gen fic without having that bashing them in the face (I don't read nor care about FFVII fic as I can't stand the game, so I'm an outsider to this fandom, but in every fandom, especially one so large, there are always people who don't ship two characters, no matter how canon).
"But in fanfic I would think that you come in to it assuming that at least at the start, everything will be consistent with canon"
Nope, I never assume that. I actually automatically assume all fics are at least slightly AU unless stated otherwise, because 99% of fanfic writers can't keep things canon for the lives of them, be that either because they're not that good or because everyone sees the world (and canon) differently. We're all individuals who form our own opinions of shows, movies, comics, books, etc. I may see a connection between two things that another person would never see, and vice versa. Canon is always a tiiiiny bit subjective, no matter what anyone thinks.
"Nobody expects to see that coming in to a fic"
They do if it's in the tags or the description. And if you don't read those, that's your fault for stumbling upon it, not the writer's. I will agree though that if a writer doesn't tag for a non-canon relationship, especially for gen fic, that's a problem. But I will never agree that gen fic can't be non-canon.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-06-23 04:18 am (UTC)(link)I should also note that when I say "expect" I certainly don't mean it has to be in there. It could very easily not come up for multiple reasons. I just mean I wouldn't be at all surprised to find it. It's part of canon, of course some people are going to mention it. Explaining it not being there was more about if, for example, it was apparent that Aeris and Zack were not in a relationship, rather than the issue just not coming up.
I guess the issue is more about tagging though. If they tag for the pairing then I don't really mind. It's just that it's so common for people to not warn for or tag background pairings in "gen" fic that I feel like we need to better establish the parameters of what gen actually means to lessen the chance of an "Oh Jesus what the fuck?" moment when pairings aren't warned for. I really don't think you need to warn for casually mentioning that a canon married couple is married, or that a person has parents. I think you DO need to warn for non-canon pairings, regardless of how minor the relationship is in the story.
On top of that, some people don't ship Zack/Aeris, and would like to read a gen fic without having that bashing them in the face
Obviously, but if the pairing is "bashing them in the face" it's not gen! I can't stand Squall/Rinoa, I have rarely, if ever, disliked a pairing more in my entire life. If there's nothing to say otherwise though, I'm not going to complain if their relationship comes up briefly in a gen fic. If it's a prominent part, then I'll complain because it's no longer gen.