[ SECRET POST #2371 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2371 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 087 secrets from Secret Submission Post #339.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[akashasheiress]

I think you're just in the wrong corners of fandom if you don't think Moffat has any fans. Trust me, he (and River Song) have more followers than detractors. I'm not one of them myself, but I've encountered more adulation than hate, personally.

[writerserenyty]

Same; it all really depends on what corner of fandom you're in. I know I used to visit a website briefly where nearly everyone adored everything Moffat did, loved River Song and hated RTD. I was really relieved to find I wasn't the only one who disliked Moffat.

[akashasheiress]

I'm neither into RTD nor Moffat, really. More of a Classic Who fan (I realise you can like both old and new, of course). So I feel like a lonely unicorn, most of the time.

[(Anonymous)]

Joining you for the Classic Who love.

Although there's something to be said for watching something when it's no longer live/ongoing. You tend to be a bit more relaxed about it's highlights/flaws. I think most of the reason NuWho is drawing all the ire is because there's still a sense that good and bad points might yet be changed?

[akashasheiress]

I actually get more nervous than excited when watching things in real time, so Classic Who is a welcome respite from that. It's done, it's happened.

Also, I think that Classic Who was, overall, much ''braver'' than NuWho in the topics it explored and in the characters it used. NuWho is very ''safe'' in comparison, even though it tries very hard to put on this Dark and Edgy veneer. But it's afraid of taking dark issues to their full conclusions and that results in a very off-putting vibe, to me. Maybe I sound weird...

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

You don't sound weird to me. I actually agree with most of that. There's a very different vibe to NuWho, and from what I've seen it actually tends to stick to the same kinds of stories. It seems to be mostly terrible-destroying-force (either aliens or some cosmic event) that needs to be stopped to save the victims-of-the-week, and tends to be very Earth/human-centric.

Which you got a lot of in Classic Who as well, but you also got things like actual politic plotlines involving alien worlds that had nothing to do with humans (having Gallifrey still extant helped with that, also having the Doctor being an occasionally bumbling explorer rather than a saviour, also having the occasional non-human or non-Earth companion). You also got things like a lot of the Seventh Doctor episodes which explored concepts and their logical conclusions (evolution and chaos in Ghostlight, for example). There was just ... a greater range of worlds and people, including companions, and the stories tended to be more immersive about other worlds and cultures (I'm thinking of a lot of Fourth, Fifth and Seventh storylines, here). Which tended to result in more varied consequences than just 'everyone saved' or 'everyone died'.

And, yes, I realise I sound reductionist about NuWho, and there have been some wonderful episodes. It just ... feels different, and in terms of storylines, characters and consequences, seems to stick much closer to a single template?

[akashasheiress]

Yeah, I don't want to sound reductionist, either, and obviously Classic Who had problems endemic to its eras, such as casual racism and sexism, but NuWho has these issues too, only it dresses them up as being the opposite, a lot of the time, i.e. the companions' lives revolving almost exclusively around the Doctor and the fact that their travels with don't actually leave them as happier, more empowered people. So in order to justify how traveling with the Doctor has fucked up their lives they have to make it all about how ''the Doctor's worth all the monsters'', rather than making them grow as people. They become the opposite of more independent. And yet, we're supposed to think that NuWho is sooo much more feminist than Classic Who because the ladies fire guns or or know the Doctor's name or whatever. I'd actually argue that, in several ways, the show has actually regressed rather than progressed when it comes to its female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. For example, I actually loved Tegan's storyline from the Fifth Doctor era. Resurrection of the Daleks hurt like HELL to watch, but I actually really respected Tegan's decision to leave the Doctor because it was coming to the stage where living with him was essentially living in a warzone.

For that matter, Jo's decision to leave as well. Not because of anything the Doctor had done or failed to do, but simply because she found someone else she wanted to stay with instead.

Though in NuWho, I will argue that Martha Jones made a pretty strong decision as well: recognising what the situation was doing to her, and deciding to get out rather than let it damage her any more.

Which is not to say that companions should leave, of course. Just that when they leave, I do like when they're leaving for their own reasons and not because something's trying to take them away from the Doctor or damage the Doctor through them. I like it when it's their decision or a consequence of genuine circumstance, rather than the universe endlessly plotting to cause the Doctor pain.

[(Anonymous)]

obviously Classic Who had problems endemic to its eras, such as casual racism and sexism

And white actors in yellowface to play asians. Thank God no fandom nowadays will just get a white actor and pretend he is an Asian that would be appalling and indefensible racism.

[akashasheiress]

Oh snap. ITA agree, though, it's gross that it still happens.

[othellia]

This. I mean nowadays they tend to be filtered into extreme love and extreme loathing, but both groups are out there. I think the main LJ comm is more RTD positive than Moffat (still minor arguments that spring up), most mainstream blog review sites tend to be really Moffat positive... tumblr's harder to pin down because there aren't really any marked-out community lines or visible divides between the different groups.

If you want to find other people to squee with, try finding a fuckyeahriversong blog or something and start tracing back the sources of things that are submitted there? You're sure to eventually find someone who likes to post meta or fic or whatever you're looking for.

[akashasheiress]

In my experience, other than the main com and coms specifically for RTD-era characters, LJ tends to lean towards Moffat. Of course, there's also the option of liking both or even neither (I'm in the latter group) but that seems to be remarkably hard for a lot of people.

[(Anonymous)]

The lj comm is dominated by two extreme haters. One of them practically oozes glee and deliberately laces his poison posts with attention catching imagery and throws shit fits when he is asked to put his rants and pics behind cuts.

[othellia]

I know one of them is ed_rex, who's the other?

And regarding ed_rex, he only posts small screencaps from the episodes so I'm not exactly how those count as "attention catching imagery" other than the fact that they are, you know, images. Honestly, I've always been of the opinion of "don't like, don't read" with him; if it was the full review stretching people's f-lists, that'd be one thing, but only the first couple paragraphs are ever included above the link/cut. I will say that I don't approve of the way he responded to the people who made those complaints though. And that one review where he essentially said "if you liked this, you're an idiot" was pretty much straight out rude for shock-and-awe attention grabbing sake, and his mock confusion at people getting upset over it was ridiculous.

Overall though, neither side came off shining like an awesome beacon of awesomeness during that whole bit of drama and just reeked of "DON'T FEED THE TROLL."

[philstar22]

What annoys me with him is his whole "you don't really like what you think you do" thing. Don't tell me what I like. And that stuff is often right there in the posts, not behind a cut, where it can't be avoided.

[fauxkaren]

Yeah, Moffat has plenty of fans out there.

[akashasheiress]

Plenty that I've seen, anyway. I think that we all sort of live in our own little worlds, fandom-wise. It's very easy to get the idea that if certain opinions seem to rule a webpage or a community it also applies to the internet as a whole.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I always kind of wonder this - my interaction with Sherlock and Doctor Who fandom is very, very limited, so it's difficult to tell whether the extreme criticism is something that's universal or just something that is specific to this group of people.

[akashasheiress]

That's a common problem, yes.