[ SECRET POST #2384 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2384 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

... that's my point. It's fandom that associates these 24/7 personality traits with the physical act of bottoming then decides that this is what "physical bottom" = "yaoi uke," then people complain about "bottoming" when it's actually "yaoi uke stereotypes" they dislike, and we end up with this. That's the main problem here.

[(Anonymous)]

Then I agree with you. That's a problem with the term, but you can't really blame one side for saying "I HATE X" when it's the pro-X side that decided to start calling it X.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's fair to say that the re-definition of the term is all by the pro-X side. Or rather, [citation needed]

I can blame the pro-X side for filling the fandom with fic in which John Doe is turned into yaoi uke Doe-chan, as though there's only one way to bottom.

I can blame the anti-X side for perpetuating it and assuming that every fic in which John Doe bottoms means he is yaoi uke Doe-chan, and complaining about him bottoming all the time as though there's only one way to bottom.

What we're lacking is not more top!fic, but a variety of bottom!fic.

[(Anonymous)]

What we're lacking is not more top!fic, but a variety of bottom!fic.

Fair enough. I still think the lion's share of the miscommunication blame goes to the pro-X side, but you're right when you say the anti-X side is hardly helping.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. In my experience the hating of "bottom!Doe" is usually not about bottoming at all but rather how the authors keep writing it, and most of them wouldn't actually mind if the bottoming were literal physical bottoming without the uke-fication layered on top.

OOC uke-fication bothers me too, so I get where the complainers are coming from. But I also see where the poster is coming from. TL;DR: everyone is using the wrong word

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed on your TL;DR.

And on a different note, thanks for having a civil conversation with me, anon. They pop up so rarely, and I'm always surprised.

[(Anonymous)]

You're very welcome, and thank you for being civil in return. =)

[(Anonymous)]

DA: I think you're conflating two complaints a bit? Yes, people complain about bottoms being written in only one way and end up all similar. So yes, calling for characterization variety would work better than calling for reversal or switching. But people also complain that certain characters are deemed bottoms just because of their looks or other canon traits. In that case it makes sense to wish to see those characters also written as tops or switchers, regardless of characterizations.

[(Anonymous)]

I specified in my first response that my comments here were related to:

when fandom's complaint is 'this character is too feminized and woobie-fied in fic', they state it like 'WHY DOES X ALWAYS BOTTOM?' when bottoming it itself has nothing to do with feminization and woobie-fication. They're complaining about the wrong thing, and I can see why anon would be annoyed because none of that is necessarily related to bottoming

Do you know for sure which kind the OP was talking about? "SWITCHING IS MOAR REALISTIC", sounds like it indicates that the complaint is that the bottom in the pairing is 24/7 bottom, and not that they are serially assigned bottom in different fics due to their appearance. So, I read it to be about how characters are written and gave my thoughts on it.

[(Anonymous)]

OP is probably talking about all kinds of things, because whenever the topic of tops/bottoms/switchers occurs, there'll be people talking about characterization stereotypes, variety in fics, personal turn-ons, real life sex, etc, etc, etc. See this thread. Also, OP said that people complaining about "always a bottom" should write their own top fics for the character, so OP mentioned both angles in their very secret.

I don't think people often realize they're actually talking from very different angles, so not everyone saying "why always a bottom" is talking about realism or characterization.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree, which is why I specified which version I was going to discuss at the beginning of the thread. Was there a problem with it?