fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2384 ]

[ SECRET POST #2384 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2384 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Two points here.

First of all, yes, both Martin and Zimmerman made mistakes, but there is a fundamental difference in the nature and the magnitude of the mistakes that they made, in general and especially in the sense of moral responsibility. Zimmerman initiated a totally unnecessary, ridiculous confrontation knowing that he had a gun, and then shot Martin; that's fundamentally different from Martin making the wrong choice in confronting the guy instead of running away, which was a mistake (obviously a mistake in hindsight, probably not the right choice in the moment), but not of the same nature. And I think it's tremendously false to imply that their mistakes were on the same level and that they therefore share equally in the guilt (which you may not have meant but which I think you did imply).

Two, whether or not the crime was racist, the reaction to the crime has been profoundly shaped by the race of Martin in particular. I really, really think that there's no way that the culture would be so willing and eager and enthusiastic in finding every flaw in Trayvon Martin's character and every mistake he ever made, and implying that these things lead to his death and "but for this...", were he not African American. That dynamic has been totally shaped by his race (and the dynamics that go with it).

At the end of the day, Trayvon Martin was not perfect and he may have made some poor choices, both in his life and on the night in question. But he's still fundamentally the victim here. He wasn't the one who started the confrontation; he wasn't the one who had a gun; he wasn't the one who shot the other one. But he is the one getting nitpicked. He was an imperfect human being but none of that meant that he deserved to get shot and the constant implication that it does mean that, or at least that he bears some of the moral responsibility for a grown-ass man with a pistol picking a fight with him when he was minding his own business, is totally wrong-headed.

I really like this piece on the whole thing and I think it gets at some of what I'm trying to say here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/11/3496085/zimmerman-trial-man-carrying-loaded.html

>Attempt to kill a guy for stopping you to ask what you're doing in the area.

"The real victim"

Top lel 10/10

go

back

to

/pol/

That wasn't me. I don't think what happened in this case is funny, I think it's disturbing. I also find it horrid that his parents turned his death into a cashcow. This whole thing has been a cluster of wtfery.

What part of what I said was actually wrong though?

From all the evidence given so far, people are suggesting that asking why someone is in a semi-private area, and following them, who might have had racist motivations, deserves a death sentence.

Because that is what you're suggesting when you claim that having concealed carry and challenging someone means you're guilty of manslaughter. Trayvons actions weren't close to proportionate to the situation.

For the same reason why Martin didn't deserve a death sentence for confronting someone who was following him. But he's still dead.

That said, this is why I hate the death penalty, because it gives juries an unreasonable choice between letting a criminal off lightly or ending their lives. The prosecution was fucking stupid to even allow that to be put on the table.

Prosecution knew what it was doing, they are building a deliberately unwinnable case. They want to lose this one, because if they win then they sink the stand your ground law and no one in Florida legislature wants that to go. Can't remove the right to shoot blacks with spurious justification down there. The prosecution is reprehensible.

Have you even been watching this? The prosecution has been really strident. They just don't have much useful evidence to work with.

If you want to build some kind of "the prosecution is racist for not putting this guy in prison forever for the murder of this innocent hoody-wearing child" you're being unreasonable. Sometimes the people you root for don't win despite their best efforts.

Then maybe he shouldn't have tried to kill a guy for following and stopping him.

His actions were massively disproportionate to the situation, and forced the other party to make the ultimate act.

Firstly Trayvon didn't try to kill anybody. Zimmerman had a bloody nose at worst.

Secondly, if you were walking out alone on a rainy night, and you realized that someone's following you, what would you do? Do you just merrily go up to the guy and ask if you can help him, or do you make the very natural assumption that the guy is following you for a sinister reason?

Honestly, Trayvon had every reason to assume that ZIMMERMAN was up to no good. The only difference is, instead of running to safety and/or calling the cops, Trayvon tried to attack him. Poor choice, but if you think someone's going to mug/attack you, not disproportionate.

Fighting someone is not trying to kill them are you kidding me.

If a strange older man who had been following me got out of his car and walked towards me I'd pepper spray or stun gun the shit out of him. Except Trayvon didn't have either of those things on him, so he punched him. Doesn't sound disproportionate to me.

Disproportionate is using a gun on an unarmed boy who only attacked because he was provoked.

No matter how hard you spin it, it won't change the fact that jumping someone for asking you a question is a huge overreaction. He WANTED to fight. The txts prove this. He felt like he was disrespected by being challenged, so he jumped Zimmerman.

4chan shit needs to stay on 4chan.

The race issue goes both ways, though. The media is incorrectly labeling Zimmerman as a racist white man, when he was a racist Hispanic man. They're going so far as to lighten images of him. There's been a huge push to make this a white on black crime, when it isn't one. Zimmerman's a victim of racial profiling just as much as his victim was, in the eyes of the media.

Trayvon still went back and fought him follower. He had a history of getting into fights, he was suspended multiple times for doing so. He wasn't aware Zimmerman had a gun either, and if Zimmerman hadn't had one, the scenario would have been vastly different. Young, in shape man assaults out of shape asthmatic stalker. Trayvon took the decision to jump Zimmerman, and it ended up killing him. At the end of the day, Zimmerman wasn't looking to kill him. It's clear-cut manslaughter, nothing more.

DA

Are you certain that they have lightened pictures, and it's not an effect of different pictures taken in different lighting? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious how you can tell the difference.

Why would you take a picture of a picture of a picture? They had the original mugshot. There was no reason to keep re-taking the image. There's been a lot of news coverage for this case, and he does in fact keep getting lighter and lighter. So much so that you can see the bad photoshop job. There's also the fact that they keep calling him white, when he's not lol

AYRT

Ah, I didn't realize we were talking about the same picture being lightened. I was thinking of different photos/courtroom stills/etc.. I see now.

They know race riots are great for the news.

I've also heard it said--though not in most of the versions I've seen passed around, and I'm not sure which one to believe--that the reason Zimmerman thought Trayvon looked suspicious was because somebody with a similar description had been committing crimes in the area, Zimmerman had called the cops on the guy more than once without intervening directly, and every time, the perpetrator was long gone before they responded. And also that he didn't mention Trayvon's race when he first phoned in the report, only when the 911 operator asked for a description.

If this is true (please note I say 'if,') it still doesn't justify Zimmerman's actions, but it does make me doubt the "paranoid bigot attacking an innocent passerby merely because of his race" angle.

This is true. It was part of the testimonies given by the prosecution during the trial.

I guess the issue is that you can both think Zimmerman is the one morally at fault, and still consider him not guilty of second degree murder.

You can't find a guy guilty of a crime that requires actual malice just because you think the people supporting him are racist. That's not justice.

We've talked about this before, I think.

I don't really disagree with you, I just think the legal outcome of the trial is not the most important thing here, and Zimmerman getting found not guilty of second degree murder does not bother me as much as the nitpicking of Trayvon Martin's character and the shifting of responsibility to him. I think your point is fair enough and definitely well taken in a legal sense, though.

This is a man's life we are talking about here. His being innocent or guilty will effect him and his family, and because of the media attention, a much larger community.

No matter what side you take, I think it's safe to say that the actual verdict will be pretty significant.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2384 ]

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