[ SECRET POST #2394 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2394 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 038 secrets from Secret Submission Post #342.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, but of course he respected her. Let me put on my Obi-Wan Robe and explain how.

He respected her so much that he kept her away from her muggle sister whenever possible in order that the relationship wouldn't cause her problems and that the separation from her into the "real" world (wizarding world is much realer than muggle world) wouldn't hurt so much. He respected her enough to try and protect her from the death of the notorious abuser James Potter (that is how Snape saw him remember). he respected her enough to flat out lie about his wonderful Hogwarts in order to make it seem more magical for her.

Oh Snape respected the hell out of Lily, from a certain point of view (i.e. his). You see a great many of the truths we cling to depend upon our point of view. /Obi Wan

[(Anonymous)]

Obi-Wan, I agree he was using that kind of twisted reasoning. That's the whole point. This wouldn't make it respect of Lily as a person. This would be him imposing his perspective on her and believing that she's secretly happy or grateful for it even as he watches her be visibly upset or angry or frustrated over it and flat-out ignores the evidence that she's not pleased. Erasing her actual person and replacing her with his own idea of who he thought Lily was, only yeah, he'd probably have been doing it when she was alive and supposedly his best friend as well as dead. Snape in his mind could've respected the hell out of his ideal of Lily (though tbf, we don't see much evidence of that either until the real Lily's death). But respecting his imaginary Lily isn't respecting Lily the person herself.

[(Anonymous)]

There is no objective personhood, there is only interpretation. How you see you, how I see you, how Mrs Miggins from the pie shoppe sees you. All are equally the same. That is the problem. If human experience was not inherently subjective, then there would be a lot fewer problems.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, that stops making sense when talking about one person outright acting on what they believe another person will appreciate, despite what that other person is actually telling them. Without anything to discredit their word, that other person IS the final say on that situation. Lily absolutely would be the objective final arbiter on herself as a person and what she really wanted. As outside observers, there's no reason or evidence ever given to think her actual reactions to Snape's demonstrations of "respect" are phony, or that the Lily who would appreciate him keeping her from her muggle sister and so on exists anywhere outside of his own head.

[(Anonymous)]

But there was something to discredit her word, that she obviously did not understand all the implications of what she did. If she doesn't truly understand something then, as well as magnanimously forgiving Lily for that transgression, Snape had to save her by bringing her under his protection (read possession). /ObiWan

That is a genuine human thought process. There is no objectivity in human thought processes, there is only subjectivity.

[(Anonymous)]

That's true, but there's a reason delusional schizophrenics (for example) aren't considered reliable sources of information. Their thoughts and reality are legitimate to them, but if they don't line up with reality as perceived by the person they're acting upon and 99.9% of impartial passive observers, it's past subjectivity to say they're probably mistaken.

I still completely agree that Snape's thought process was along these lines, but he's a construct in a fictional situation which includes the actual POV of his love, not just his idea of her POV. A situation that's being judged by outside readers. We're given no reason to doubt the truth of Lily's words, and no evidence that Snape's thought process have basis in the reality presented in The Prince's Tale or the books overall. Snape may have felt he respected Lily greatly, but Lily clearly would have disagreed based on their friendship when she was alive. As outside readers, it's made objectively clear to us that Snape's thought processes are skewed at best, and we can say that the person he respected was not the Lily we're shown.

(Though again, even looking at the situation through Snape's Mind it doesn't demonstrate a lot of respect -- there's little to indicate what about her does impress him, aside from her having magic. It's all about what he can do to ~save her from herself.)