[ SECRET POST #2412 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2412 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 093 secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, but I think there's a line between socialized mysoginy and homophobia (Where the whole 'can you be more gay' or the constant use of 'bitch' and 'skank' fall) and being actually misogynistic and homophobic.

I may not be all up to season 8, but as far as season 6, I've never seen Dean treat a woman as less capable of anything JUST because she's a woman. His complains against Jo, for example, where about her lack of experience, not about her being a woman, and he tells her so, for example, and he never treats a female monster as less of a treat than a male one. At the same point, not only he doesn't react offended in seasons 1-3 whenever he's assumed to be gay (yes, even when they assume he's with his brother), and I'm sorry, but his grimace at the Con CAN be because they're cosplaying as him and his brother and he has made clear his feelings about wincest before. The S&M dude, and the vampire where both situations in which he was making clear he was not gay BECAUSE he thought that both were showing interest in him (The Chief because Dean was going into the club due to the trick the magicians played on him and believed Dean to be into gay S&M, and the Vampire because his first lines to Dean sounded like a come on). On the other hand, he doesn't react badly when Balthazar says that Castiel is in love with him, or at the gay ghostfacer.

Is the show misogynistic and at times homophobic? Hell, yes! Same as the fandom. But from there to say that Dean, as a character, is written specifically as an homophobic, macho jerk is a bit of a stretch. Dean has a lot of horrible flaws, but I think those two are not it.

[(Anonymous)]

Read my reply to kaijinscendre. I was using the examples to complain about the writers -- not Dean.

Uh, I didn't really read that much into Balthazar's line, and I'm pretty sure Dean didn't either? It's like when Meg called Cas Dean's boyfriend. They seem to be teasing Cas for the sacrifices he is willing to make for Dean when they are both much more self-involved. Dean not really having that much of a reaction...doesn't really prove anything?

Also, Dean not hating on the gay ghostfacer doesn't really prove anything either? I was talking about casual homophobia (which is a thing a lot of straight guys possess). Dean has said things that are pretty freaking homophobic and sexist. I dislike this aspect of his character.

You just said the show is homophobic, and you said Dean isn't written to be homophobic. The writers make the show, and they are the ones writing Dean. At a certain point, you have to acknowledge that the writers' sexism and homophobia has also influenced a character to a degree.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Maybe the thing is that I differentiate between 'saying sexist and homophobic things' and 'being sexist and homophobic'.

A really homophobic person or character would react at those jokes, somehow. Because they're jokes at the expense of his masculinity. The fact that he doesn't proves that he's not written as a homophobic character. (and good for you not to read anything on those lines, for me they're jokes. But they're jokes that a homophobe would take as offensive and horrible)

You didn't say that he was casually homophobic, you said that he was homophobic, and there's a difference between both.

Yes, the writer's sexism influence what Dean says. But so far, it hasn't make him homophobic or sexist. It's ok if you hate that he does say homophobic and sexist things, but seriously, it's like saying he's racist because most of the PoC characters in the show are evil and he kills them. (Again, the show is being racist, but Dean, as a character, has never been written as a racist man)