[ SECRET POST #2413 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2413 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[nyxelestia]

Actually, OP only said they were glad about that 5% part, in that only 5% of the characters they might want to cosplay will garner any conflict based on race. They made no comment on anyone else's experiences, and judging by the fact they posted it here, they are well aware this is a problematic situation. They are expressing something which they feel guiltily grateful for.

And honestly, considering some of the bullshit ANYONE who cosplays another race puts up with? I don't blame them. I don't think anyone should be put through hell for what they cosplay, regardless of 'which direction' the race change is in. There is a big difference between being grateful that one's own race matches up to the majority of characters they want to cosplay, and saying this is a good situation and needs to stay that way. OP only expressed the former.

[likeadeuce]

'There is a big difference between being grateful that one's own race matches up to the majority of characters they want to cosplay, and.saying this is a good situation and needs to stay that way.'

So you're reading the OP as saying that she enjoys the benefits of being white but feels bad about enjoying it, so it's like a white guilt confession? *cocks head* OK, I didn't get that level of self-awareness out of it, but I suppose that would be the way of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[nyxelestia]

It's not benefit of that doubt, it's just trying to avoid jumping to conclusions or assuming things about the OP.

Here's what we know:

1.) Majority of Marvel heroines are white
2.) OP can cosplay these characters without accusations of white washing
3.) They are grateful that they can do so

If you want to get technical about it, inferring that the OP is white is on it's own an extrapolation - all we actually know for sure is that the OP's outer appearance matches the race of the majority of Marvel heroines. For all we know, OP isn't even actually white but just looks that way (not that it's particularly relevant, as for the purposes of this discussion these two things are interchangeable - I'm just making a point that there is a big gap between what's actually stated and what's being implied and inferred).

Now, additionally, there's a bit of meta-data here leading to #4:

4.) They posted this as a secret

This implies that they are well aware of the fact this gratitude for their situation is something to be guilty about, something to be kept secret. We don't know for sure - maybe OP just considers F!S another place to share things and doesn't feel sorry about this at all. But how likely is that, given the context of the secret itself and the community it was just posted in?

So yeah, I actually am getting a "white guilt confession" out of it. And I don't think it even requires a high level of self-awareness for that white guilt to happen. I mean, racism is a big issue, especially in areas like America where a big portion of the Marvel fandom is based. And especially in the wake of recent events (namely the Trayvon Martin case), awareness of the fact that some people get advantages due to not just their race, but the race they appear to be, has grown dramatically. When my white and white-looking friends volunteer, jokingly or not, to go out for various food and drink runs late at night because they are least likely to get shot, it's not due to intense racial studies or heavy education in ethnic conflicts, nor is it due to high levels of self-awareness. It's just basic awareness of the world we live in. And not everyone has that, but that doesn't mean it's a "high level" when someone does.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said.

[nyxelestia]

Thank you. :)

[likeadeuce]

OK, I already said this elsewhere on the thread, so I'm just going to repeat:

There are 'this is secret because I feel guilty about it' secrets and there are 'this is secret because I don't want to be criticized' secrets. OP doesn't say anything that I interpret as guilt but directly states that she doesn't want to be criticized (which is basically what 'accused of whitewashing' boils down to. No mention of abuse or censorship in OP's post, just of being told that people don't like what she's doing.)

I have no way of knowing what was in OP's mind, and maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt when something's ambiguous, but I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that the motives stated in the post are the ones that motivated the post.

(And you're right that we technically don't know whether she's white, or female for that matter, but the secret is written to strongly imply that she is. I think people writing posts have to take some responsibility for the words they use.)

[(Anonymous)]

'this is secret because I don't want to be criticized'

Yeah I get that vibe.

[(Anonymous)]

How? Does ANYONE do that? Because people get more shit here than a lot of places. It's not quite ONTD, but it's certainly not laid back here. If someone wanted to post something without getting criticized for an opinion like this, F!S would not be their first choice.

[nyxelestia]

I didn't really understand this, either. I mean, unless the secret actively says something indicating that the OP is not sorry for something or doesn't feel that they should be sorry, I tend to automatically assume they feel weird or guilty about whatever they are talking - because otherwise, why post it here?

[nyxelestia]

I'm not seeing how "not wanting to be accused of whitewashing when they cosplay" automatically translates into not feeling sorry about the situation and not wanting to be criticized for it. They have a status. That statues is being able to cosplay most characters without being accused of whitewashing. They make a comment about the cosplaying. There is no comment about the status itself, whether they don't want to be criticized for it or if they feel sorry for it.

I agree that for all we know, the OP really does NOT care and just doesn't want to be criticized for it, but that is not at all what can be inferred from the post. The post only talks about their cosplaying privilege, and there isn't really anything inherently connecting what they said to the OP's thoughts about their privilege. It's not an improbably jump, but it's still a big jump to assume that being grateful about not having to face racial criticism with who they dress up as = thinking this gratitude does not deserve criticism or that they shouldn't be criticized for feeling this way.

[likeadeuce]

I'm going to say one more thing and then wrap up it. There is a major difference between your 'white people go out to the store so the cops won't shoot them' example a few comments back versus 'white people constitute the majority of characters.' In the first case, one would hope that all decent people wish we lived in a society where no one would be singled out by law enforcement and have their life threatened because of race. There's no inevitability that, if racial profiling changed, it would change to a system where white people are targeted INSTEAD.

OP's statement however, is based on simple math. She has a 'privilege' if you will because the numbers are in her favor. The fact that the numbers are in her favor means that the numbers are against someone else*. By the terms that OP chose, it is the definition of a zero sum game.

*BTW, I think it's giving OP the benefit of the doubt to assume she acknowledges that nonwhites are likely to get shit for cosplaying white characters. The terms of the post only state that white people might be criticized for playing POC, not the reverse. I *am* actually making that assumption but even making that assumption the statement bugs me, because of the simple math issue.

[nyxelestia]

Of course decent people hope for that. I wasn't trying to say otherwise. I was just making a point that it doesn't take a lot of self-awareness to realize you have a racial privilege.

OP's statement however, is based on simple math. She has a 'privilege' if you will because the numbers are in her favor. The fact that the numbers are in her favor means that the numbers are against someone else*. By the terms that OP chose, it is the definition of a zero sum game.

As I mentioned, I was just pointing out that the fact that they posted it here in F!S implies they are well aware this is something to be ashamed of, and that's a big leap to assume they don't feel guilty about that gratitude or situation just because they feel that gratitude for their situation in the first place.

[likeadeuce]

If you think that everything posted here is something that people are actually ashamed of, rather than something they would like to say without being criticized for it, then your understanding of this community is fundamentally different than mine.

But we've been through this, I don't have anything to add. Thanks for your perspective.

[nyxelestia]

I don't think everyone who posts something here is ashamed of it. I'm just saying that most of them are well aware it's something to be ashamed of, and that typically implies a certain level of guilt to go with it. That's why I said that unless someone says something to actively indicate a lack of guilt, I assume they feel as much because of the context of the community.

And I appreciate your politeness. You're a lot nicer than some of the people online I've been arguing/debating with, lately, even here on F!S. :)

[likeadeuce]

Hey, I appreciate that you are supporting your argument with thoughtful reasoning, even if I don't agree with it.

We should have more of that!

[nyxelestia]

Oh, if only...

In the meantime, I try to think of having my long and well-prepared arguments being responded to with trolling and nonsense as preparation for when I (hopefully!) eventually get to law school. :P