[ SECRET POST #2419 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2419 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Way early because taking dog to the vet. :c

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #346.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I actually agree with you. And yeah, damn if you can say anything at all to critisize him without fans jumping in to insult you and defend him. Or call you a troll or jealous.

[type_wild]

I disliked his writing style so much that I never made it through the one novel of his I tried to read. So in the interest of gossip, would you tell me where the sexism starts?

[(Anonymous)]

Are you incapable of giving examples or something? I have no desire to defend Gaiman, but vague cryptic complaining is getting kind of tiresome.

[(Anonymous)]

the problem is simply that the works and people who are targets of these vague accusations usually aren't really sexist, but include depictions of genders or people that can be read as simplifying them, stereotyping them etc.
most of the time though that's a) due to the fact that narration has to describe things, and has to rely on discourse to be understood, which in turn can still carry connotations that can be read sexist and b) that the writers are only humans and have their range of experience, which they shape into characters and narrative. You're not neccessarily Sexist just because most women in your fiction are housewives. Maybe that's just your world. That's the thing with fiction: it's like looking into a kaleidoscope through someone else's eyes. It's not religious dogma, and shouldn't be treated as such.
(not that I'm at all familliar with this guy...:P But I remember how I, having watched the two seasons of sherlock, was astonished to find so many accusations aimed at Moffat (whom I was compl. unaware of, anyway) claiming he/his writing was sexist.)

[nyxelestia]

I think part of it is that Moffat has said and done some sexist things beforehand (in interviews and such), and so whenever someone doesn't like a character of his and the character is female, the default is to jump to accusations of sexism and misogyny. Granted, I've only seen his Doctor Who and Sherlock, but while there are some problematic themes here and there, they don't seem to be particularly worse than the way female characters in popular media in general are written, and most of the reasons for why people claim his writing of River Song or Irene Adler are misogynistic are kind of nonsensical or are only partly to due with the characters and writing themselves and more to do with who was writing them.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt I haven't made vague cryptic complaints, I simply replied to the secret. I did not see the need for examples because I'm not here to argue or convince you of anything, only to reply to the secret.

[dragonimp]

Okay but, for those of us who missed it or haven't read all his works and are insanely curious, could you PLEASE give us a hint or two?

[(Anonymous)]

i'm not saying you're trolling

i'm just saying the chances that if you're not trolling, this is kind of a bullshit move (and it's p shitty trolling if you are trolling)

because, like, what the fuck did you expect to happen when you replied to a secret saying that you agreed with it and nothing else, when everyone very clearly disagrees with it, or at least wants to have a discussion about it

what was in your mind here, and how did you expect no one to ask you about it

[(Anonymous)]

I honestly didn't even think people would pay attention. They rarely do to anons, or if they do easily dismiss them as trolling. What was in my mind was I wanted to reply to the secret and let them know that I agreed.

When I come to FS I'm not one of the anons looking for a discussion. I like to read the secrets and leave a reply to the ones that interest me. This is the first time I've come back and seen other replies to my comment and the first time I've actually engaged in conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

Well in general, if you go someplace and say "Well X is shitty" without any evidence to back it up, should you really be surprised when people don't take you seriously?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Where's your evidence for why it's not shitty? People can come in and say something is wonderful without evidence, but someone comes in and says they don't like it and suddenly they need lists of reasons why and are prompted to convince everyone their opinion is valid.

[(Anonymous)]

Because in my country, you're innocent until proven guilty and I generally prefer that kind of sentiment.

[(Anonymous)]

Most people here seem to think that Neil Gaiman is not sexist. Therefore, the statistical weight suggests that this is more likely to be true, and stronger evidence is required to assert that he is sexist.

da

[(Anonymous)]

I'm one of the people that doesn't think Gaiman is sexist, but this is a really shitty argument.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL that's not how stats is done

[(Anonymous)]

My thoughts exactly, although fake!stats are occasionally hilarious. XD

[(Anonymous)]

Listen, I'm like 99% sure that is how statistics are done.

And that's a statistic, so you know that I'm right. Because statistics say so, and I know how statistics work, as we've previously determined from all my statistics.

QED I'm right.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think ayrt should have used "x is shitty," because you're right: sometimes people can't come up with lists of reasons why they like or dislike something. It's just a subjective impression that they have, and that's okay.

I think the difference here is that this author's work has been declared to be "sexist." This is a claim that can be evaluated more objectively, and so people are asking for evidence.

[(Anonymous)]

yes well but keep in mind that people who do NOT think that X is shitty are usually sixteen year old Subaru/Seishiro shippers

[(Anonymous)]

Are there any of those left? How old is Tokyo Babylon/X?

[laceblade]

They're re-releasing it in omnibus editions, so there's a new generation 0:)

[poisonenvy]

How can they rerelease X in an omnibus. D= The series isn't omni yet.

[blueonblue]

Old enough to buy a drink in Japan.