[ SECRET POST #2419 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2419 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Way early because taking dog to the vet. :c

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #346.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. http://i.imgur.com/XR4Jq96.png

[(Anonymous)]

*makes popcorn for this thread*

[(Anonymous)]

You gonna share that?

[(Anonymous)]

my first reaction to this secret too.

I happened to skim some reviews of his most recent book and even professional critics seem to either over-enthusiastically adore or sneer at him. entertaining times.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course you can say that out loud. People say that out loud all the time.
But some other people will also disagree with that out loud!

[(Anonymous)]

Examples please.

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is a photograph of the writer Neil Gaiman. He has light skin, sort of wild short brown hair, flying because of a breeze, maybe? He is wearing a dark T-shirt or shirt and a dark suit jacket or coat. He is on a street, with some sort of old-looking buildings next to him. The picture is taken on a weird angle, tilted as if looking from the ground.]

I can't get over how sexist his work is and how you can't fucking say it out loud.

[(Anonymous)]

Given what he recently wrote about the possibility for a female twelth Doctor, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

[(Anonymous)]

OK - fair enough. Personally he's one of my favourite writers of women out there, but I've heard people disagree. Though, do you have a reason for your secret? What gets on your goat about his writing?

[visp]

*pats head* It's okay, little troll. You tried.

[(Anonymous)]

being a shitty writer* doesn't make him sexist

it just means he's a shitty writer*

*post-1996 at least

[writerserenyty]

Examples? I'm not familiar with his comics work, so I can't speak to anything in that, but I haven't noticed anything that terrible about his novels.

Note that I am not finished with his latest, so I can't speak to that either.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually agree with you. And yeah, damn if you can say anything at all to critisize him without fans jumping in to insult you and defend him. Or call you a troll or jealous.

[iggy]

I don't know how sexist he is, although I'd be hardpressed to call his writing feminist, but he is pretty damn overrated.

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck them. Say it all you want.

Look, it's easy:

Neil Gaiman is a sexist lowlife.
His work is misogynistic.
His love life is psudo-abusive.
He is scum.

I once said this directly to him at a bookstore(The first bit. he wasn't with Amanda palmer back then). It felt awesome.

[dragonimp]

Is anyone going to provide examples?

[(Anonymous)]

I remember being annoyed by Door in Neverwhere, but Coraline/The witch girl from The Graveyard book weren't bad female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

I love his stuff, but I can't disagree.




SPOILERS FOR STARDUST!
Rather... well, I'm not sure if it's sexist per se, but the whole way Yvaine ~falls in love with~ Tristran in Stardust made me kind of uncomfortable. I guess it's just another take on the Beauty and the Beast trope, but yeah...

Stardust is one of my favorite books ever, but if you really think about it Tristran is kind of an asshole? (tangent: I would have rather heard about his father's story than his. At least Dunstan cared about other people than himself). He holds Yvaine hostage in order to give her as a (semi)human "gift" to Victoria Forester. The only redeeming aspect of his character is that he finally gains some sense of conscience when he realizes Yvaine will essentially die if she crosses the barrier into Wall and prevents it from happening. But then again, if he didn't realize he already loved her at that point, would he have cared?

Idk, I appreciate that Gaiman made Yvaine the leader of Stormhold (only after Tristran dies, of course), but other than that...

[saturnofthemoon]

There was the part in Sandman where Morpheus condemned Nada to thousands of years in hell for rejecting him. Then again, Morpheus is a dick to everyone. Calliope is also depicted being raped. I don't know, in general I wouldn't call Neil Gaiman a shining beacon of feminism, but I don't find him to any more sexist than other authors I've read.

[(Anonymous)]

Gaiman's writing has flaws, but this thread escalated awfully quick from "sexist books" to "misogynistic abusive scum". What the fuck.

[darkmanifest]

Yeah, the sexism is subtle, but - to my eyes, at least - it's always there. I just finished The Ocean At The End of the Lane, so this secret is timely, and while I enjoyed it, it had the same underlying currents. That said, his work just seems to have the typical passive sexism most people have, nothing special or remarkable. It pops up on the sidelines of the always-male (except for Coraline) perspective character so breezily that you can mostly ignore it. Like what happened to Shadow's wife in American Gods, or that fucked-up mess with Spider and Rosie in Anansi Boys, or Gaiman's fixation with featuring a trio of incredibly powerful women who never have anything better to do with their (eons of) time but nurture the (often useless and incredibly troublesome) hero. Small but constant things.

Like I said, this isn't unusual. These are just the kind of narratives most of us grew up with and automatically regurgitate and Gaiman does it, too, seems silly to be mad at him for it. Though I guess maybe it's irritating when people forever sing an author's praises and they're so predictable with their themes (except for maybe Sandman).

[(Anonymous)]

He did this retelling of Snow White from the queen's POV and I just felt... sketched out throughout. It was just so lurid, like, "sexual predator woman feeding on men", and I never bought his writing as the queen's voice. It was just off for me.
I'm super tired of male writers making a huge deal of how ~feminist~ they are, though. Go write your ladies but don't applaud yourself over it every time, FFS. (Looking at you too, Joss Whedon. del Toro's comments on Pacific Rim that everyone keeps fawning over, too. wow good job you wrote a woman as a human being.)

[(Anonymous)]

At first I thought this was about his comment about how the world isn't ready for a female Doctor but then you said "his work" so.

[(Anonymous)]

Another lesbo sjw getting her panties in a twist on f!s. How unique and unheard of!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not a particular fan of Gaiman, and haven't read a great deal of his work, but some things do bother me. I read Stardust as a teenager and remember being disappointed and bored by it, but remember no details whatsoever.

American Gods, on the other hand, bothered me because the sex worker and the homosexual character (one of each) existed only long enough to be introduced, have sex, and then get killed, having contributed nothing to the story whatsoever. And the death of the sex worker (a goddess whose name I cannot remember) read as overly detailed and gratuitous to me.

Of course, there aren't that many works out there that don't have problematic aspects to them; I don't begrudge people the right to enjoy them on their merits.