[ SECRET POST #2419 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2419 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Way early because taking dog to the vet. :c

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #346.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dragonimp]

Is anyone going to provide examples?

[(Anonymous)]

Nope.

[(Anonymous)]

This is getting REALLY TIRING but it seems not.

I mean geez if someone gives backup for their opinion I can respect it but if they just call him misogynist and scum without any explanation ...I just...can't help but suspect they're trolls or something.

[(Anonymous)]

I hope someone does! I'm just really curious, and if this is a "thing" in his owrk, I'd like to know. I'm not arguing with the OP, but I do want to know more. So... examples, please?

[(Anonymous)]

You know, in every other conversation I'e seen in this comm concerning sexism in a piece of media, there's been examples galore and a proper back-and-forth. The fact that this hasn't happened yet kind of makes me think that there aren't actually any examples.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Ah, someone finally provided one:

http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/859507.html?thread=677595763#cmt677595763

[(Anonymous)]

YOu'd need some applied google-fu, but I know I once read a rather thought-provoking post by a MtF blogger regarding Sandman and the 'Game of You' story arc, with Wanda and Thessaly and "woman's mysteries" and some very traditionally gender-essentialist magic rites and... It wasn't bashing, this was someone re-reading a work that meant a great deal to them as a teen, and finding it problematic once you scratch the surface. Like, in the Sandman series, there's a recurring motif of dead Black women - deliberate and the chain is broken at the end by Gwen - and murdered transsexuals. And for all that Barbie's storyline is officially pro-Wanda and "fuck what the moon goddess thinks", the fact is she [ SPOILER? ] does die too and does have that line "maybe I'm not the woman I thought I was" and acts like a flaming stereotype at first - as do the lesbian neighbours - and it kinda ends up coming off as "there was an authorly attempt, but inner unexamined prejudices end up colouring the storyline and classic, harmful tropes were employed". And his queer characters come off a bit deliberately "world of weirdoes". Which could add to the surreal atmosphere of the Sandman mythos, except in a world with actual witches and old gods and incarnate nightmares, the characters just end up vibing as freaks too...?

Now I gather Gaiman has had some of that stuff pointed out to him, and Sandman was a while ago already and I think he's matured from "so edgy using LGBTQ characters in my supernatural plots" to "these are actually people I am writing about" and 'representation matters', to some extent.

On the charge of pure sexism rather than queer and trans -related issues, I'd say he's aware of the issues - he pointed out himself how in Coraline the film had to give her a male sidekick/helper and saw it as a bit problematic (even while fairly justifiable from a purely storytelling-inna-different-media POV). But most of his works are about worlds more... vivid and garish and with the unfiltered weirdness coming through - and most of his adult protagonists and POV characters male - so I can see that adding up to a sense of many of his female characters male-gazed as either desirable or unscrutable or viciously dangerous, in his worlds of archetypes ascendant.
And I suppose by choice he likes working with old fairytale and legendariums which are often originally quite full of be-pedestaled women, "fairest in the lands", the Monomyth for male heroes, sex goddesses, vengeful harpies, witches and vamps. I do think some of his works call for sexist tropes to get the feel he wants, and he runs with it, sometimes he tries to subvert things along the way and every so often he doesn't notice the potential ickiness.

Is how I'd call it. But no one's paying me to review his books nor could I in a hundred years outwrite him, so... *shrug*

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not that much into Gaiman's novels, but, regarding his screenplays, his latest Doctor Who episode made me really uncomfortable regarding how the girl kid character was treated compared to the boy.

Sure, they were both stereotypes, but he was a

Doctor Who, The Silver Nightmare (written by Gaiman) a precious, highly intelligent treasure, kind of nerdy, i.e. a positive stereotype.

While she was basically an annoying, moaning teenage bitch, i.e. a negative stereotype.

How is that not sexist?

[dragonimp]

Now that's not a bad example. I don't think it's worse than what's generally on TV right now, but it's a fair point.