fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2427 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2427 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 068 secrets from Secret Submission Post #347.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Something that bothers me about this:

Why should anyone get to determine what "hot" means? Why should the fact that East Asian people don't consider Lucy Liu or Ziyi Zhang* "hot" mean that they shouldn't get cast in certain roles? Is their hotness or lack thereof their only defining attribute? Additionally, are you sure that Zhang isn't considered "hot" in East Asia? She had a lead role in 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,' which was not filmed solely with the West in mind (huge hit in China, natch).

*The outcry over her role in 'Memoirs of a Geisha' wasn't over the fact that she wasn't attractive; it was over the fact that she was Chinese. Chinese people freaked out over the fact that she was A) playing a Japanese woman and B) portrayed as having an attraction to a Japanese man. This struck ethnocentric chords, not "beauty norm" chords.

"You see this chick?

She's the lead in Mirror's Edge 2. A lot of Japanese gamers were complaining that she's too ugly. This is what they consider ugly.

It isn't better in Japan. Don't let an idealized experience of anime fool you into thinking things are rosy. Sexism is worse in Japan."

Japanese people saying Faith is ugly has nothing to do with sexism, it has to do with different beauty standards. As I said, it was a bad argument to make because like you said, nobody gets to decide what hot means and some Japanese people saying Faith is ugly is not automatically sexism.

I was explaining why she would be considered ugly or at least strange-looking to a lot of Asian people- because she is tailored to the white-Western view of "Asian beauty" which is also seen in p. much all Asian Hollywood actresses. Which is true. I did not say that she is not beautiful at all, I said that she is not conventionally beautiful to the Japanese.

Do you think that Lucy Liu and Ziyi Zhang were only cast in their respective roles because someone in the West thought they were hot, and not because each read for her part and happened to be the most impressive?

Allow me to rephrase your very leading question in my answer.

"I believe Lucy Liu and Zhang Ziyi were cast in their respective roles because of a combination of their acting ability and their looks, but, I also believe that other Asian actresses, with looks that would be more conventionally attractive to people who live in Asia, given the same amount of acting ability, would have been overlooked by white Hollywood because they would have been considered by white Hollywood to look less 'exotic'."

Of course it's leading. What you originally said gives the impression that you believe Lucy Liu and Ziyi Zhang were chosen, at least in part, because of their looks, and the question was intended to assess that. Your answer proves that this impression was correct.

Ziyi Zhang is not considered unattractive in East Asian circles. People were upset because she was not Japanese. The point was to illustrate that you chose a poor example.

Furthermore, you are not making a very good case for this not being at least in part about sexism. If a female actor can lose or gain a role depending upon whether or not certain people find her attractive, then that is sexism. The fact that her attractiveness or lack thereof does not correspond to beauty standards in a certain part of the world doesn't change that.

I'm talking about the West constantly exotifying Asian women and demanding that the exotification be accepted.

You're talking about how beauty standards are sexist, and how any beauty standards at all are sexist things.

I don't feel there's any point in continuing this, as it's become obvious we're arguing at entirely different things here.

So, a western company making a game with, most likely, western fans in mind and not doing massive changes to a model that - they openly stated was not supposed to be "supermodel" attractive because the asian fans thought she wasn't attractive is the west demanding people agree with their standards of beauty? Even though a number of factors between both western and eastern beauty actually match up?

[Because, remember - the comments were mostly focused on her beauty, not how realistic she looked]

That is not what you stated you were talking about two comments ago. You stated that your entire point revolved around the fact that beauty standards are different in different places.

You know what's obvious? When people don't respond the way you want, you move the goalposts. Good job.

SA

Oh, btw: arguing that it's okay for Japanese fans of a game to dislike a female character because she's not "attractive" to them but then decrying Western exotification of Asian women is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Either it's okay to judge women based on their appearance or it's not. Sort that shit out.

"Japanese people saying Faith is ugly has nothing to do with sexism, it has to do with different beauty standards. As I said, it was a bad argument to make because like you said, nobody gets to decide what hot means and some Japanese people saying Faith is ugly is not automatically sexism."

Um, it has everything to do with sexism.

[ SECRET POST #2427 ]

Re: Seriously, this.

You missed my point.

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