[ SECRET POST #2429 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2429 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Arrested Development]


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03.
[George R.R. Martin]


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04.
[Bee and PuppyCat]


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05.
[Harry Potter]


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06.
[Resident Evil 6]


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07.
[The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings]


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08.
[Naruto]


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09.
[Jin, Hanzawa Naoki]


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10.
[Neverwinter Nights]


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11.
[Shina Dark]


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12.
[Thomas Gibson from the series Criminal Minds]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #347.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

...I think you're exaggerating quite a bit, and are possibly biased in your reading. He thought of her as a teammate, and toward the end of part one it was approaching close friend, as much as that's possible for someone like him. But all that got shut down quite handsomely when he left the village. Nothing since has seemed to show he cares one iota about his former friends, let alone acknowledges that he hurt them, which should be the first step toward redemption.

[(Anonymous)]

You would think, wouldn't you? Honestly I went into the re-read expecting to find that all the stuff I thought about the character dynamics was off-base, but it really isn't. Part one flies by, like I'm not sure Kishi had any sort of planning laid out for it at all. Like all of the sudden he remembered he had to move the plot along, and suddenly Sasuke was running off before he and Naruto felt like they had remotely earned the degree of obsession Naruto exhibits toward him in part two.

Sasuke also explicitly refers to Sakura as one of his precious people when he tells Naruto to take her and run when they face Gaara post Chuunin exam, so I'm not really sure what you mean by that or "as much as that's possible for someone like him." I'm not Sasuke's biggest fan in part two, and a lot of what he's done is fucked up but in part one he was a pretty harmless kid. Was he a jerk at times, yes. So was Naruto, and so was Sakura. But he was overall a standard kid, albeit one with a severely fucked up past, and he exhibited genuine affection for both of them in the time before he left the village.

Nothing since has seemed to show he cares one iota about his former friends, let alone acknowledges that he hurt them, which should be the first step toward redemption.

He's fought with/defended both of them during this current battle so far. I highly doubt that Kishi is gonna take time out for an extensive heart to heart during, but like someone mentioned earlier he apologized to Karin, who has been consistent comic relief. Not expecting that Kishi will present a real apology from him to Sakura/Naruto/Kakashi at some point is laughable.

[(Anonymous)]

What? Sasuke was not a harmless kid. He was severely anti-social and had an obsession with killing his one remaining relative whose very appearance drove him into murderous, unthinking rage. These are all obvious signs of deep psychological trauma evidently left upon him by his experience in the massacre, and they worsened throughout part one due to plot factors, ultimately resulting in his defection. It's not like all this came out of nowhere, his psychological base was already damn shaky and he wasn't okay even before all the mindfuck. Compare him at 8 years old, and when he appeared in the series.

So the reason I said Sakura was a close friend to him as much as was possible is because he didn't have close friends the way a normal person would. He came to see them as precious people that needed to be protected, but he wasn't able to be emotionally open to them the way one should proceed in a normal, healthy friendship. Sakura was always very emotionally giving (to Sasuke), so even back then their relationship was one-sided. His relationship with Naruto was more balanced because they just saw each other as rivals, but then Naruto had socialization issues himself anyway.

This is mostly on Kishimoto, but that apology to Karin was a joke and I'm disgusted it played out the way it did. She had even less reason to forgive him than his old friends. And here's the thing, it doesn't actually matter what Kishi has Sasuke say or do at this point if he never so much even has a moment of clarity to acknowledge to himself that he did wrong. All his moments of self-revelation have been about his brother and his clan, none whatsoever having to do with the people he actually hurt. The first step toward making amends is accepting that your actions were harmful, you can't just skip that and go straight for empty apologies, though I have no doubt Kishi will. That's why no apology from Sasuke will mean anything substantial, nor should it change any of the problematic aspects of his relationship with Sakura and the others.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're putting way too much into this. Severely anti-social? He wasn't incapable of interacting with people or forming connections, he was just averse to it. he at least talked to Sakura a bit about the massacre, encouraged her and hung out/joked with her and Naruto. He had issues but you're lending some sort of over complexity to it, honestly. (Naruto's socialization issues, wtf? He's supposed to be loud and brash, that' just a shonen hero thing.)

And here's the thing, it doesn't actually matter what Kishi has Sasuke say or do at this point if he never so much even has a moment of clarity to acknowledge to himself that he did wrong.

Is that not an extremely necessary part of any serious apology? I should think that would go unstated with "I assume he'll offer them an apology at some point."

[(Anonymous)]

And what is the qualitative difference between being incapable of forming social connections and being averse to it when this state of being isn't natural to your personality and was brought about by trauma? The bottom line is, he wasn't like that when his family was around, and now, he is. That isn't normal. His defrosting interactions with his teammates came about gradually -- they're signs of his improving psyche as a result of, you know, finally starting to have people to care about again. Until it all came to a crashing halt.

Yes, I'm sure Naruto was just the typical loud brash shounen hero and didn't have any issues growing up ostracized and despised. This utter lack of issues is why he could claim to empathize with the likes of Gaara, who let's hope no one will argue was just a standard kid. I mean, what is the entire basis of his argument that Sasuke should stay when they had their Valley of End showdown? That he knew what if it felt like to be so alone and having so much hatred inside you.

I hope you're kidding because yes, being earnest in your intention and accepting you did wrong is absolutely essential to a serious apology. In real life, even! That's why tropes like "My God, What Have I Done" exist: to facilitate well-written redemption arcs.

[(Anonymous)]

And what is the qualitative difference between being incapable of forming social connections and being averse to it when this state of being isn't natural to your personality and was brought about by trauma?

There is a severe difference between being literally incapable of forming social connections and being averse to it, even in reaction to trauma, are you kidding me. Is this. I said he had a very fucked up past (obviously) but he still displayed the ability to act like a normal kid and function and open up/care to people for most of part one wtf. Compare that to part two Sasuke who has to parallel Taka to Team 7 mentally in order to bring himself to help them--that's the difference between being incapable and averse.

This utter lack of issues is why he could claim to empathize with the likes of Gaara, who let's hope no one will argue was just a standard kid.

> ability to empathize
> socialization issues

Please. No one is saying Naruto didn't have issues. just that he channeled them differently and to a much less severe extent than Gaara or Sasuke post his Itachi encounter. He's obviously a far cry from v1 Gaara or Sasuke, but he acted as a child far differently from Gaara. I should hope that's obvious. He did ridiculous pranks for attention, he didn't murder people, and was obviously capable of relationships and affection unlike Gaara. (Iruka, crushing on Sakura, etc)

I hope you're kidding because yes, being earnest in your intention and accepting you did wrong is absolutely essential to a serious apology. In real life, even! That's why tropes like "My God, What Have I Done" exist: to facilitate well-written redemption arcs.

Um, yes. Which is why I'm confused you wrote a paragraph earlier about how Sasuke's assumed future apology to T7 won't matter if he doesn't acknowledge that he was wrong, because acknowledging you were wrong is a fundamental part of an apology--without acknowledging it, the apology doesn't really exist, hence why his owning of his actions would hopefully go unstated as a qualifier.

[(Anonymous)]

Telling Sakura in all seriousness, "I have a man I want to kill," doesn't exactly qualify as being emotionally open about his issues, it's just another sign that he was fucked up.

[(Anonymous)]

If his realization goes "unstated", that would be the epitome of lazy writing. Sure, instead of showing that Sasuke's sorry for what he did, let's just have him say that he is and pretend that's how he's felt all along even though at no previous point was this apparent.

A redemption arc, to be well-done, takes time and development. The thing is Kishimoto had a chance to make this work, and even now he can introduce little asides of Sasuke's thoughts where he acknowledges these things. But no, instead let's have a bunch of dead guys reveal to him that his clan was all about peace and love, and have that be the reason for him to change sides.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you being deliberately obtuse. I'm not saying the realization itself should go unstated in the manga. I'm saying that the fact that an apology includes an acknowledgement of one's faults should go unstated. That's like 50 percent of a true apology.

[(Anonymous)]

This, absolutely all of this.