[ SECRET POST #2433 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2433 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 073 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

That doesn't make any sense though. By your definition nothing can ever be selfless because no matter what someone does for someone else, they will ultimately be doing it for themselves first and foremost because it will make them happy to help another.

I don't believe that. Dean didn't want to be tortured forever but he did want Sam to be alive. He sacrificed himself to save Sam's life. It doesn't matter that Sam was already dead, it still fits the very definition of "saving someone's life." I'm at a loss for how you can describe it as anything BUT selflessness. It's a shining example of selflessness.

The thing is, selflessness of this variety is INCREDIBLY damaging. And SPN showcases that. Dean was selfless, utterly and completely selfless, and it was a TERRIBLE thing. Why is it so hard for Sam!girls to acknowledge that? "Selfless" =/= saintly and wonderful and nothing but good things.

Though I guess none of it matters. The fact that you're insulting anyone who thinks Dean was being selfless and dismissing them as "Dean stans" indicates that your opinion on this is so biased as to not be worth listening to.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a specific group of Supernatural fans (I have no idea if they really prefer Sam over Dean or not, but given that their arguments tend to paint Sam badly too, I'm guessing no) that claim that anyone saying anything slightly positive about Dean is a Dean-stan and will get into any conversation about Supernatural to prove that the Dean-stans are the cancer that it's ruining fandom.

I'm betting ayrt is one of those because their argument makes no sense.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm betting the aIrt was one of the incredibly wanky ESGs who posted the "Sam just deserves to be happy!" secrets last week. You know, the ones where the examples they gave of Sam's happiness were actually moments where Sam was suicidally depressed, miserable, etc? Same language choices, same gross misunderstanding of Dean's character, same need to bash people who like Dean.

I just find it so frustrating that their view on Dean's deal has become the fandom norm. It's one that I've never understood. It's like the people who get hung up on the fact that Sam is more self-centered than Dean* - "self centered" isn't always a bad thing! It's a hell of a lot more healthy than Dean's take on things, especially early in the series. Sam made choices that were in his own self interest and it was a GOOD thing. But it's like they have this incredibly rigid definition of "selfless" and "self centered" and can't understand that sometimes selflessness is bad and self centered is good, so they can't possibly see Dean as selfless or Sam as self centered.



* Caveat here being the whole more than deal. Sam loses any trace of being self centered IMO around the middle of S5 and he typically wasn't obnoxiously self centered even before that (though there were a couple of moments in S1 that made me want to shake him). He was just more self centered than Dean in the sense that he knew what he wanted for himself and was willing to forego what other people would prefer to make that happen. Like him leaving for college. It was definitely in Sam's best interest but wasn't in the best interests of John or Dean or the people that they helped but it's not like Sam was a bad person or made a bad call by deciding to go. It was the right decision, IMO, and it got Sam out of an unsafe place that was damaging to his mental health. He made the right call.

And the occasions when Sam was negatively self centered, well. So what? A character isn't allowed to have flaws? Peh.