[ SECRET POST #2437 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2437 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 024 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

http://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/869286.html?thread=681562790#cmt681562790 What about this reason? You don't address it in your comment

^ I and all the others who agree with that reason and love fics in which the female characters are NOT part of ships because so many canon series make ships a big part of female characters but are tired of seeing ships take over female characters whether it's in het OR f/f, what does that make us?

[lieu]

i didn't address it because it's not one of the primary arguments i see defensive slashers bring up constantly when asked why they don't spend a notable amount of time celebrating f/f pairings, though i have seen it before. i can see where it's coming from, but it also kind of, i don't know, still leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth? mostly because it seems weird to think "women in fiction are so often defined by their relationships [99% of the time with men] so i am unable to appreciate shipping involving them in a fictional context ever!" especially when i have never seen a f/f fandom "take over" (your words, not mine) a female character.

imo shipping, as annoying and single-minded as it can be, leads to a greater and more vocal appreciation for the characters involved and for me at least is a lens with which to learn more about the characters involved, so i find it hard to believe that shipping f/f is somehow obscuring a character's awesomeness as an individual, or how enjoying imagining a complex and nuanced romantic/sexual relationship between two women is somehow un-progressive compared to preferring those characters to be strong independent woman who don't need no anybody, so to speak.

[(Anonymous)]

what the heck? nobody is making it about being progressive or not besides you. "women in fiction are so often defined by their relationships" and when i want to read fanfiction about women, i want to read fanfiction about women having awesome adventures and not relationships, that has nothing to do with being progressive or not and you are conflating your agenda with what people have literally told you they personally enjoy.

i don't read f/f for that reason. i also don't read het for that reason either. i don't read fics where all the focus is on the badly written broody manly man, either. i like a lot of gen with female leads or female teammates going on awesome adventures and not hooking up. they might need each other but it doesn't have to be in a romantic sense and you get so damn little of women needing anybody in a nonromantic sense that i love seeing it in fanfic.

enjoy the bad taste in your mouth because this is somehow not feminist enough for you. this anon doesn't care.

[lieu]

i'm not operating out of some sense of feminist tumblr social justice crusading, fyi, in case that's what's coming across. i'm a grouchy shipper complaining on the internet because i get tired of seeing people fall for slash ship after slash ship and not paying attention to anything else, and i'm trying to understand why it's what fandoms will jump on in a big way nine times out of ten. never claimed to have any deeper motivation than that.

women in ships and being romantic and shippy is like the default in het everywhere, so i'm less interested in it

this comment was where i pulled the observation of being (un-)progressive from, btw. you're probably right, i might have been projecting a bit, but this whole discussion is about gender relations so to say that i'm "conflating my agenda" ("my agenda" basically being "why doesn't anyone care about my awesome ships goddammit" not like, "rah rah misandry," for the record) in a conversation about gender is a bit questionable. people play liberal olympics every-fucking-where in fandom (and on f!s) so it's not completely out of left field, and the comment read to me like its author was trying to defend their preference of slash as some pseudo-feminist action, whether or not that's what the author actually intended.

but i do think it's valuable to actually have an honest conversation about shit like this rather than just having it be an echo chamber for people to repeat the same arguments that always come up. i may be totally off base in my points, i'm not a trained professional in internet infighting, but i think there are legitimate questions to be asked about why situations like the OP's secret happen all the time.

the core of what i'm wondering is like: i go into mainstream media, and most shows revolve around dudes. i go into fandom, and fandom's tastes revolve around dudes. what gives, man. what factors are at work here.