fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2440 ]

[ SECRET POST #2440 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2440 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #349.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So you object to the state of Israel using the Star of David as part of its flag?

ayrt

*shrug*
It's neither my religion nor my country, so I don't have any authority on this particular matter, but in general -- yeah, I think using the symbol of a religion as the symbol of a country is a bad idea. It's insulting to people who belong to the country but don't follow the religion and to people who follow the religion but don't care for the country. That symbol belongs to a lot of people. Don't get it dirty.

Israel is a Jewish state. Not just now but all through history. The whole point of Isreal as both a place and idea is that it is exclusively for Jews (Isrealites) and absolutely no one else.

But there are non-Jewish Israeli citizens, and non-Israeli Jews.

You HAVE to be Jewish to be an Israeli citizen. And while there are certainly Jews who don't identify as Israeli, it's the same as Catholics who don't recognize the Vatican as their religious governance.

nayrt but ehhhh I think that's going a little far, I think. The analogy is inexact. But it is broadly true that Jewishness is part of the identity of the state of Israel, in its conception, its historical origin, in its present politics, in everything. I mean, there's a word for a non-Jewish state of Israel, and that word is "Palestine". I don't say this to blame or praise; I think it's simply a fact.

I don't think that analogy really works. Part of the definition of Catholicism, to my understanding, is recognition of the Vatican as an authority. Israel isn't a religious authority to all Jews the way the Vatican is for Catholics.

A better example would be that many Catholics don't identify as Italian, even though Catholicism originated there (before it was called Italy, obviously).

But thats actually probably an even worse analogy, because Catholicism didn't really originate in Italy (as a distinct branch of Christianity, maybe, but it's still Christianity and had its origins in Israel). And even talking about Catholicism as a distinct branch of Christianity, it's not really especially Italian - it's the Latin church, it's composed of all the people who used the Latin rite, it just happened to be that the head of it is in Rome. Even from its origin it was present in lots of Western Europe.

Unless your point is that it's a flawed analogy? Not sure.

I was actually speaking of Catholicism as a distinct branch, not of its origins in Christianity as a whole. In my experience many Catholics don't refer to themselves as part of Christianity as a whole, but as a distinct faith, anyway. (As a non-Catholic Christian I find this kind of annoying and elitist, but this is based on personal experience with some annoying individuals.)

Anyway, it definitely had an origin in Europe. You're right that it didn't originate in Italy - I got it mixed up with the Orthodox church in my head (the one that started when a Roman emperor became a Christian publicly).

My point about the Vatican and Israel, and their relations to their particular religions, still stands - especially because Judaism is as much an ethnic heritage as a religion, whereas Catholicism is not.

No, you don't. There are Arab citizens of Israel. That's the part of my family in Nazareth. Hell, there's a couple entire Arabic parties in the Knesset.

Israel is a racist state but no, you don't have to be Jewish to be a citizen.

Er.... Only 75% of Israel's population are Jewish. So I guess you don't?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

That is not correct, there are Muslim Arab citizens of Israel.

fuck off, anti-semite

Israel is a Jewish state. It's in their Constitution. And Jews in general want and need Israel to exist. Many Jews disagree with some of Israel's policies, but I doubt you will easily find any who think that using the Star of David on the Israeli flag is "getting it dirty."

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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