[ SECRET POST #2441 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2441 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #349.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fleshisyummy]

Personally, I dislike the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" because it illegitimatizes the feelings of people who actually are oppressed. Nowadays, it seems like when someone is making a legitimate argument, all you have to do is call someone a "stupid silly angry SJW" and their point becomes moot. I've seen people on here and tumblr bash on trans* people for having trans* headcanons on here, saying they're stupid and that they should always be tagged. I've seen people completely lambast POCs for drawing popular white characters (such as superheroes) as POC. And when they try to speak out, they're called a "stupid SJW ruining fandom."

If you say that you're headcanon is the only right headcanon, then, yeah, that's a problem, but I've seen people doing nothing wrong be harassed by self-proclaimed anti-SJWs.

[(Anonymous)]

That's because the stupid silly angry SJWs *are* ruining it for everyone else by literally being the strawmen people can point to. One of the major reasons I hate what they do is because they *do* make it harder for the rest of us to raise legitimate concerns by doing ridiculous shit.

I am anti-them.

This doesn't mean I'm going to go oppress people or yell at them for drawing characters as POC or something jfc. I am a POC. One that thinks all the yelling SJWs are doing for my sake is hurting me instead of helping.

[fleshisyummy]

That's true. I was just explaining why I (as well as other people) dislike the term.

[(Anonymous)]

What should we call them, then?

[fleshisyummy]

Yeah, see, that's the problem. People are always going to take words and twist them around. I'm sure a lot of people use the word "SJW" properly, but there are others who use it against anyone involved in social justice. It's the same way people think feminist is synonymous with man-hating and bra burning when it really just has to do with wanting equal rights for women.

I generally just complain about people individually, but I realize that's difficult for larger fandoms.

[(Anonymous)]

assholes

[chardmonster]

You do realize you're arguing that people should shut up about bigots so people will stop being bigots, right?

[(Anonymous)]

No? I'm arguing that there are better ways to talk to bigots to try to get them to listen, outside of leaving a billion angry comments calling them assholes and worse and telling them to go educate themselves, and inviting all your friends to do the same.

That's what SJW do, and they think that helps.

[chardmonster]

But a lot of them won't listen.

I honestly used to agree with you, but yeah, nobody's mind is changed on tumblr.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, there are cases where nobody will listen. Screaming at them... guess what, still doesn't help. So no matter what, nothing good is accomplished. In those situations? Yes, I wish people would give up and move on because it's a lost cause.

In others, a lot of the time, dialogue is actually prevented because people figuratively go in swinging. OMG HDU HAVE SAID WHAT YOU SAID? RACIST and immediately puts the person in question on the defensive when half the time they're not even aware what they said was offensive. Then they pile on saying they should have known and HDU not be as American-cultured and college-sociology-educated as the rest of us, go teach yourself... and it almost never goes well.

I say this as a college-educated American who is not white het w/e else. It doesn't help. They're alienating people who might have listened and learned something, if given the opportunity (but it's not their responsibility to educate anyone! of course).

I have strong feelings about this, can you tell.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't this what the SJW's refer to as "the tone argument"? (i.e., "You should listen to the content of what I'm saying; the way I say it should not matter.")

I'm always hard-pressed not to laugh when someone drags that little gem out. It's a nice idea, but it rarely works that way in real life.

[diet_poison]

oh man I hate that. Me saying "you're being abrasive, please stop" isn't the same thing as saying your abrasiveness makes your point invalid. It just means you're being unpleasant and I don't want to listen to you, and chances are, neither does anyone else. -.-

It's just an excuse to be an asshole and try to get away with it.

[chardmonster]

Oh yeah, I hate that tone argument blacklash bullshit. Tone matters.

What I'm saying is that people who write out thoughtful explanations still get called SJWs by a lot of the anti-sjws.

I'm not defending the sassy gif brigade.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Personally, I dislike the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" because it illegitimatizes the feelings of people who actually are oppressed.

Usually what I see (since this is a pet peeve) is people claiming to be queer(*) attacking other queer people because of definitions and theories that I never heard of before tumblr, and I've been out for almost 20 years now.

(*) often some flavor of pan- demi- or asexual saying that everyone else is doing it wrong.

[fleshisyummy]

Oh, yes, I've seen this.

I've seen pan people attack bisexual and gay people for being binarist and transphobic, and it's really upsetting. :/

[chardmonster]

That existed way before tumblr. It's what of the messed up things about Queer politics.

See: queer academics condemning gay people who want to get legally married because it's too heteronormative.

The major difference is 1. the tumblr kids are younger and 2. actually pay attention when this happens rather than shrugging and carrying on

[cbrachyrhynchos]

I don't see that coming from queer academics so much. And it should be possible to reasonably disagree on different priorities for activism and even community language. I see repealing anti-SSM laws as important because they were never about marriage to start with. But I don't begrudge people who think that suicide prevention, homlessness, trans* discrimination, community building, HIV, and anti-violence campaigns need more money and hands.