[ SECRET POST #2476 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2476 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 048 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Obamacare

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that all political strategies are at least potentially valid - that you can't make any binding rules in advance, that everything is a question of circumstance and context, of the consideration of means and ends. But saying that doesn't mean that any political strategy is actually justified in a given context. You couldn't make a rule against something like what the Republicans are doing; there's certainly times when it's appropriate. But the question has to be whether this is that time. If there are no hard-and-fast rules in advance, then we have to use our reason and our judgment to determine it.

And to me, the answer to that specific question - are the Republicans justified in using this strategy to oppose this law - has to be no. Because the strategy that they're using is an incredibly risky and harmful one. That's really what I object to, if I'm honest - the government shutdown is harmful, but toying with the possibility of a credit default is really dangerous. And to me, Obamacare simply is not harmful enough, or immoral enough, to require such a dangerous, hardcore response (especially since, again, it is legal, and it has been passed through the whole framework of democratic government). It is just out of proportion. I can understand people opposing it; I can't see how anyone would think it's awful enough to oppose in this way. It seems to me a mistake in judgment. And the same would go for the Democrats - it's always a question of judgment, of whether what the Democrats would be objecting to would be serious enough to be worth risking something like this.

Sometimes, in a democratic republican system, you lose because the other side has the majority of the votes. And that's the way the system works. Sometimes, the thing in question is so important that one feels no choice but to go against the laws - but a lot of the time, you just kind of have to accept that you lost that one. And it all comes down to our judgment and our reason and our principles when it comes to determining which is which.

Re: the problems in our system - I think a lot of it comes down to the influence of money, but that's a whole other topic and I've already written a billion words here. Sorry about that, by the way. I keep thinking "Oh, I just have one point to make" and then all of a sudden, there's multiple paragraphs up there...

Re: Obamacare

[kelincihutan]

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I think that, in the judgement of at least some of the Republicans, Obamacare really is going to be that bad for the country. So, yes, this strategy is pretty crazy, but they genuinely believe that the risk merits heroic measures. I don't give all of them that much credit, I'm perfectly happy to say. John McCain, for example, has all the genuine conviction of a used car salesman and none of the charm. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, is taking a bath in PR, but is sticking to his guns. That takes conviction and inclines me to think he really is convinced Obamacare is that bad.

But I don't think that the US will default on anything. Like I said, I think they almost had a debt deal yesterday. I strongly doubt the shutdown/debt ceiling debate will survive this next week. A large part of the Republican strategy was to get Democrats on record as voting for such-and-such or against so-and-so going into the 2014 elections. Having gotten those votes on the record, and having made a pretty strong effort to get at least some concessions on Obamacare (they may actually get the medical device tax removed, but that's still in the works), I think they can walk away pretty happy for the time being. It's part of Obama/Reid's strategy, too. If the Democrats wait out the shutdown until the very last minute before a potential default, they can demand the GOP give up virtually anything with the threat that Republicans will get blamed for a default so they'd better give over. In both cases, both groups have strong motivation not to default outside of the whole it-would-be-bad-for-everyone's-economy thing. So, for all the rhetoric flying around about it, I would be flabbergasted if it actually happened.

As to the long comments, it's fine. You seem like a very thoughtful person, and we're actually talking about politics on the internet and not having a fight, so I totally appreciate the conversation.

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

Just wanted to butt in long enough to note that, while I disagree with McCain on a number of important points and I'm glad he wasn't elected President, lately he seems to be the only Republican (at least among the outspoken leaders in the party) with any integrity at all and the only one I can somewhat respect. He's been denouncing the House Republicans' strategy and acknowledging Obamacare as the democratically-enacted law of the land, calling for the House to accept it and move on, despite the fact that he himself strenuously opposed it. Granted, this may say less about McCain himself than the sorry state of his party in general.

(Unrelated to the current topic, I also recall that during his Presidential campaign, he rebuked his own supporters in the audience at one of the debates for shouting inflammatory things about Obama, saying that he was a good man and they had nothing to fear if he was elected President. Policy aside, I wish more of his colleagues would show a little more of that kind of class.)