[ SECRET POST #2479 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2479 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[lynx]

Sorry, but I'm exhausted and not at my prime. I can't remember when was the last time I slept, and I wish that were just a figure of speech.

- Where do you learn your sociology matters. Hell, even the political views of the professor end up being relevant - even if you disagree with them from the start. Do you know, for example, that "The Open Veins of Latin America" by Galeano used to be a banned book here during Pinochet's dicatorship, but is now mandatory High School reading?

- Your "American" is not the same than my "American". I told you on other thread of the origins of the word. It wasn't invented by the English. And it's certainly not our fault the way the English just called "America" vaguely their 13 Colonies, instead of checking the damn map.

- Of course Canadians get offended when confused with... I'll call them "people from the USA" and leave it at that for the moment. Because the prevailing association that comes to mind for a Canadian upon hearing "America" is the one they have with their neighbors. And it's NOT a good association for them. (I'm not the most well-versed in Canadian History, but I have heards such glowing reviews from people I trust that have visited there. And it's not only them, Quebec conflict nonwithstanding, you're widely regarded as a kind nation with a goverment that cares about their people. The same cannot be said about the USA.)

If I publicly make a statement like "in our culture, we consider all the people on this continent to be American", and a Canadian gets offended, I will quickly reassure them I'm not referring to the USA, but to the totality of our geography, and the shared experiences of having being places with our own indigenous people that after became colonies under the Powers of that age, and who after, attained freedom either through revolution or peaceful treaties.

(I wouldn't even touch the stuff about mixing races, because I know the statu quo for English and French colonies was to kill or banish the natives, not enslave them and then have half-breed children just to disown and put to work as it happened to us with the Spaniards; so for example that's something we don't have in common.)

As for a "Person from the USA" asking to be called an American, I'd politely present my point, and act depending on the reaction. Civilized conversation is totally possible and desirable. I want people to understand where are we coming from, not force them to adopt a name they dislike. That's not polite. Is like misgendering a trans* person on purpose. (The problem being, we both would be feeling invalidated in our identities.) Truces must be made.

- If you had bothered checking my other answers, you'd know "USian" was propposed at liberal-oriented colleges and social studies circles from the USA. They took our word "Estadounidense" and coined the neologism USian. It was not invented by Latin American people.

PS: We all have our different views and cultures, even inside our cluster of "Latin America + The Caribbean". My mom has brown skin and dark hair, and is very small. She constantly gets mistaken for Peruvian, which angers her to no end - She always snaps to answer she's Chilean and don't you forget it. But when asked: "Mom, are we Americans? And are the Peruvian also Americans?", her answer is yes, and then we start enthusiastically talking about Andino music and traditions we share with the Peruvians. We don't have the best relationship with Perú, and we can argue for hours who invented pisco (or does it better), but only the most nastily racist people here claim that we are nothing like the Peruvians. As if we didn't share all our northern culture with them.

[ariakas]

I understood it the first time with the typos - go to bed ^^;

You've given me a lot to think on. I'm still not entirely sure I agree with you, but I'll give it some consideration. I doubt USian will catch on outside strongly liberal academic circles, but US American might. Ultimately, if you can convince people from the US to adopt the new terminology, obviously, I'll use it until then... I think a fair truce would be calling people from the US "Americans" if that's what they want to be called, but also calling people from other parts of the Americas "American" if they wish to be called that (though I don't understand what's offensive about "South/Central/North American"? "American", as mentioned, is offensive to Canadians, but "North American" is not).

Wouldn't be the first word to have two meanings. That way nobody's identity is being erased.

[lynx]

I promise I will go now. And... I'm sorry about losing my nerves back there, I was unpolite to you. Saying you've lost my respect... that wasn't cool.

I'm glad the discussion gave you something to mull over. Whether you end up agreeing or not, it was an excersize in critical thinking for both of us. It had been too long since I last debated anything (normally I avoid it, despite liking it, because I get anxious too easily; and it goes double if I'm not doing it in my mother language.) So I must thank you for the time and thoughts you dedicated to this. And I've been thinking a lot about possible solutions, precisely because I reckon now I was looking at the subject too much from my own perspective, indeed becoming closedminded myself.

I think I got it a little bit more when I realized that there had to be a suitable compromise, because if nobody budged, someone's identity would get pissed on. And it's shitty to erase another person's identity: Whether it was mine or of the hipotetical Person from the USA wasn't the point at all. It has to be something we agree on collectively, everything about my idea of "one single continent" had been at first about bringing people together, consensually.

(Having North/Central/South American is not offensive o/ But it's kind of divisionist.)

US-American is an agreeable compromise I think most people would be proclive to embrace if it gets more wide-spread. Sounds less radical-left than USian. It's just a matter of people don't forgetting to tack on the "US" in front of the "American" and all this wank it's solved.

Thank you for discussing this ideas with me. I can't say I had a lot of fun, but that's for family-related issues that have me constantly stressed. What I can say, is that it was definitively interesting, and got me to flex some mental muscles I had let grown complacent in recent times. So please, let me thank you, ok? :3

[ariakas]

N/P and thanks for the debate - it's hard to talk about things as emotionally-charged as identity politics. It's also understand someone coming from a place to diametrically opposed as to want to be included in a term you yourself find extremely offensive when applied to you. I'm definitely just as guilty as arguing from an emotionally-charged premise here -_-

(I don't think the North/South/Central descriptor is meant to be divisionist - it's just plate tectonics. The seven continent theory is taught in pretty well all English-speaking countries - despite how little sense the Europe/Asia distinction still makes - so that's why so many English speakers wonder 'why "American" and not "North/South/Central American"?' The six continent theory is largely alien to us.)

Though if it's fair to append South/North/Central to "American", it should be fair to append "US", I think.

Cheers, and have a good night!