[ SECRET POST #2479 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2479 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

What gives you this idea that people get referred to by their chosen names? Scotland sure as fuck hasn't managed to stop the UK being called England in common parlance, it's still wrong. Let's not even talk about "Egypt".

That said, the word "American" is actually ambiguous - it might mean one thing, but also another! So no need to flip your shit when someone uses US-American (or USian, although that's really weird to my ears) to clarify what they actually mean. Especially when they're in a context where they actually constantly make that distinction, such as living on the part of the continent that is conveniently deemed unimportant by your chosen name.

[ariakas]

such as living on the part of the continent

The continent? Us Canadians just call ourselves Canadians. All of my Mexican friends and acquaintances are just fine with being called Mexican. Which part of North America becomes unimportant when people from the USA call themselves American? I live on the same continent as they do; I'm not.

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, the continent (the Americas) does not just have three countries on it.

Canadians don't need to be called Canadian Americans because their chosen name is unambiguous, same for Mexicans.

There is literally a logical problem because the US's chosen names may logically also refer to millions upon millions of people who aren't from your country! This is not about the English language, it's about logic.

You have "Americans," but does it mean "Americans" from the continent(s) of America(s), or does it mean "Americans" from the country USA? Statistically it's more likely that we're talking about the USA, but statistically there are also way more people who have a claim to the "continental" definition of "American," so which do you choose?

The general rule of thumb would be that you specify when you're talking about the more specific case. Especially with South America (which is or isn't a thing depending on who you ask - and that one's got nothing to do with false language friends and everything to do with false geography friends, which are international, hurray!) becoming more and more of a player on the world stage, it makes sense to take into account the hundreds of millions of people who are accurately described by the term "American" but not "US-American" (such as yourself, apparently?) and just type those extra two letters. It's really not gonna kill anyone.

[ariakas]

I know, I know, that was a tongue-in-cheek statement to point out that in much of the world, especially the English-speaking world "The Americas" aren't one continent - hence the plural. Canada, the US, and Mexico are on one. That is what comes to mind to us when you refer to "the continent"; and then the following argument makes no sense.

...And in our defense "The Americas" being one continent would logically make Africa the same continent as Eurasia, and I doubt kids are taught about "Eurasiafrica" in South America, either. Like the Europe/Asia divide, viewing North/South America as one or two continents but Africa as distinct is 100% political and socio-cultural.

[ariakas]

...Though I really should add that if your "rule of thumb" for specificity applies, no one should get to call themselves "American". People from the USA should be "US American", people from Brazil should be "South American", etc. That's by far the most precise and specific terminology. "South America" may not be "a thing" everywhere but I've yet to meet someone who didn't understand what I meant by it from anywhere in the world, whereas even if "US American" were to be adopted wholesale and everyone from the continent(s) referred to as "American" you would still have tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of books, articles, films, etc. with the original usage leading to tremendous confusion.

If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander, right? The Americans from the USA put "US" on there and everyone else appends "North/South/Central" respectively. That seems fair.

[(Anonymous)]

That's exactly what people do though, so that's okay. When someone is specifically talking about North American (as opposed to all American) people, they most decidedly say North American - and when they are specifically talking about South American people (as opposed to all American people), they also say South Americans. Nobody would think to say "Americans" but willfully exclude all of North America, that's just idiotic.

I'm glad you admit that using a word that might or might not mean a few hundred million people more or less is confusing though. :D I'm just not sure why you think confusing language is awesome.

[ariakas]

I'm just not sure why you think confusing language is awesome.

Because let's be honest: it's not really confusing language to native English speakers educated in an English-language environment - i.e. probably 95% of the people most people speak to when they use the English language. If anything, using "American" to mean anything other than "person from the USA" in that context is confusing. Using "American" to mean "someone from the USA" is the only thing that isn't. I like to not be confusing.

Of course, it's also what they themselves want to be called, and calling someone what they want to be called is, well, the non-dickish thing to do. I also like not being a dick! The problem is that two groups of people want to be called the same thing, and they want it to mean something different. Which is confusing. ...Only not to most English speakers, who use American for someone from the US and North/South/Central for everyone else in the Americas. So... it isn't actually confusing at all, really, it's just upsetting to some people who use different terminology in their native language and want that language to apply in English to because that's how they identify.

So let's just drop the "confusing" pretense and call it what it really is, shall we? ;p "US Americans" might be less hurtful, but it's not less confusing. /real talk

[(Anonymous)]

That's a pretty nice asspulled statistic - but at least on the internet, it's highly unlikely that you're looking at anything close to 95% native speakers.

and calling someone what they want to be called is, well, the non-dickish thing to do.

Unless, you know, they insist on a name that is dickish to a bunch of other people. :)

[ariakas]

And yet, those non-native speakers understand what is meant but the word perfectly, or they wouldn't be offended by the intended meaning. Nobody said "on the internet", now did they? Which is why you have a number on fully grown adults on this thread along who've lived their entire lives without hearing the the 'alternatives' - American has only ever meant one thing.

So... being dickish to one group of people (by stripping them of the national identity they chose for themselves and have always had in their language/culture) is perfectly acceptable so long as you're not dickish to another group of people (who still have their national identities, as well as continental identities, but would like to retain the supra-continental identity that they're accustomed to in another language/culture by co-opting the national identity of the former).

Claiming that "insisting" on being called your own name is a dickish thing to do is a stretch.

Why is it that Americans must be the one to invent a new word and change their identities, anyway? Why not just keep using the word "Americano" - in English - to mean what it does in Spanish: "a citizen of the Americas"? It would hardly be the first world English has adopted from a romance language even though it technically has the same word and gave the new word a different nuance?