fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2481 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2481 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[game of thrones]

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02.

[Star Trek, Sleepy Hollow, Elementary]

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03.

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04.

[Junjou Romantica]

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05.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for Percy Jackson]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

07. [WARNING for suicide/self-harm]

[Slipknot]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #354.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I love how Misaki's decisions get dismissed as "the author expressing their own beliefs" but anything else is treated as if the character is a real person or the reader is a rapist. Waaaay to contradict yourself here, buddy.

It's an established trope of the japanese (since this happens in hentai too) for someone to be reluctant at first only to have a complete 180° moments later. You might see it as rape since that's different from the West, and you may have noticed western works do not do this at all, and when they have someone say no they mean it, it isn't just for show. As for me, I know it's a japanese sex fantasy trope, unrealistic as it may be to a westerner, and it's not even the only one out there, so it doesn't bother me particularly nor do I see it as rape. Guess we'll just never agree.

same anon as above
Also, before someone puts more words in my mouth, I in no way mean to imply that these tropes are any more realistic to a japanese person than they are to a westerner - I am no expert on japanese culture, but I'm fairly sure saying something like that would be saying a load of bullshit. I merely kept the stance on a western pov since that's what I am, and meant to imply absolutely nothing on actual japanese culture by it.

See, the issue with this trope is that there are many, many instances when people say 'no' and mean 'no', but rapists don't believe them or tell them that they really mean 'yes', or that they'll totally enjoy it! (And you're wrong about that never showing up in Western works.)

So there is a significant number of people who don't realize that that trope is just fantasy. And so when they see that sort of trope in works over and over again, it makes people like that feel normal and justified. It normalizes rape. It's the same as how making jokes about raping people just makes rapists feel like they're the normal people. That everyone is a rapist. That when someone says 'no' they actually mean 'take me, I'm yours!'

This issue isn't that the people who dislike it don't know the difference between fantasy and reality. The issue is that a lot of rapists don't, and media that romanticizes rape only encourages them.

I am talking about western yaoi/slash/whatchamacallit works, and no, it doesn't show up really.

Please point out to me how many fans of yaoi or hentai have raped someone because of yaoi or hentai, which as genres themselves are explicitly known and recognized to be a fantasy by their readers, go on. You're trying to imply a causation out of a correlation and that's wrong.

There's never going to be a straight connection like that. Nobody is going to rape someone because of one specific thing. It's about a whole accumulation of various things that support the world view of potential rapists that rape is normal. It's rape-is-love tropes, it's rape jokes, it's people saying that various forms of nonconsent are consent...

The fact is that even when something is obviously fictional and a fantasy, not all aspects of it are realized as fantastical. It happens all the time. You get people who read historical fiction without being familiar with that area of history, who know the story isn't real but can't tell the completely fictional events from the real ones. In the same way you get people who know that the characters and story are fictional, but don't realize that in real life if someone doesn't consent to sex and you have sex with them that it's rape. Especially if it's in something that's marketed as a romance rather than a rape fantasy.

And damn. There are a lot of rapists and potential rapists out there who don't think a lack of consent means it's rape.

>There's never going to be a straight connection like that.

Ah, so you admit you've been making up bullshit.

Rape jokes about real victims are gross, but I don't see how making a joke drawing about Celestia molesting Twilight Sparkle with a big ass "THIS IS AN ADULTS-ONLY JUVENILE HUMOR BLOG, THE AUTHOR DOESN'T SUPPORT ANY OF THESE ACTS IRL, DON'T LIKE DON'T READ" warning is 'supporting the world view of potential rapists that rape is normal'. Yet I've seen people attack that too, and that's when it isn't anymore about actual issues it's about making people stop liking what you don't like. And yes, I'm talking about a real blog.

I don't see how it is not the responsibility of the reader to inform themselves, rather than taking everything they read for 100% truth like an idiot. It's a lacking on their part, not on the author's, as long it's clear that it's a work of fiction.

I still maintain if I decide that I'm actually okay with it, then I was never raped, and what the author writes, goes. Which is one of the reasons why I do not consider Junjou Romantica not a rape fantasy, among others I've already explained above. If you want me to repeat myself do say so.
If you're talking other series, I'd rather you named them instead of keeping the vague talk.

*do not consider Junjou Romantica a rape fantasy
I'm tired too, yep.

"so you admit you've been making up bullshit."

wow. maybe you need to put down your wonderful fantasy world of yaoi where everything is consent and nothing is problematic because it's all just fantasy and take a look at the real world.

because people can't look at both and see where one starts and where one ends huh
no everything has to be some media's fault

DA

I don't see why you're even bothering anymore. The anon you're talking to seems completely oblivous to the idea of rape culture and how that even in fictional tropes, it can still be harmful.

I do think that anything that implies a causation out of a correlation that doesn't exist is a load of bullshit.

So you think rape culture is bullshit? Gotcha.

Go back to tumblr, sjw. You won't find your "rape culture" in a bunch of yaoi manga.

I think trying to claim that anything "influences" someone to rape is bullshit, yes.

You know what makes someone commit rape? The rapist's desire to rape. Not something they read in a book or saw on TV. I think it's bullshit to try to shift any of the blame onto anyone or anything else. The vast majority of men out there never commit rape and understand that no means no without having to be told this.

If someone commits rape and then tries to excuse themselves with "well I read it in a book so I thought it was okay!" they already know that what they did was wrong if they think they have to justify their actions.

SA

Damn it, I meant to say that even in fiction those tropes can still be harmful.. Hope that makes more sense. I'm too tired to continue so I'm going to bed.

[ SECRET POST #2481 ]

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