[ SECRET POST #2489 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2489 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #356.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

jesus christ. this.

[nyxelestia]

I'm not saying that "assburgers" are the majority or anything. I just mean that once you've run into enough people who claim Asperger's on the basis of Internet self-diagnosis and who only ever bring it up to get away with being an asshole, I can see why someone might be incredibly frustrated and start to be suspicious of anyone who claims Asperger's without any kind of medical backing or who only ever brings it up in certain contexts.

[nyxelestia]

We were complaining about people who act like an asshole and then go "But I didn't mean it, I'm just autistic!" to get out of being responsible for what they said or did. What we were doing is discussing why we have concerns over Asperger's and yet refuse to talk about it or pursue it, and it is because of the people who use Asperger's to try and get away with acting like a dick. The association is strong enough that without an actual medical diagnosis, we would both rather just pretend we don't have it in real life.

I'm sure that out of all the people who said and did dickish things and then went "I'm autistic, it's not my fault" some of them are actually autistic, actually can't get any kind of medical diagnosis, and actually have social problems. But I highly doubt they are the majority, simply because most of the people who actually, genuinely suspect themselves of Asperger's aren't trying to use it to get out of having basic social skills, but are try to learn and trying to get out of not having those basic social skills. And yeah, some of them end up making mistakes, doing and saying stupid shit, and then needing to apologize or explain themselves. But they usually try to learn from their mistakes. The majority of 'assbugers' don't, because learning from their mistakes would imply responsibility for their words and actions that they do not want to take.

[nyxelestia]

I can see how you'd get that impression from my posts, but no, I don't believe it's defined by social behavioral tics. In fact, the reason why my mother started to take a second look at it in relation to me are the physical factors, i.e. trouble with certain physical sensations (how people file their nails is still beyond me), weird facial expressions and body posture/gestures, flat voice, etc. I'm just saying that the perception of Asperger's in society at large is defined by the social issues.

And I get what you mean about self-awareness, but I'm not talking about looking at one's own behavior. I'm saying that more often than not when someone genuinely has Asperger's, and you tell them they were acting like a dick or something is really not okay, they appreciate the insight. And they learn from their mistakes, or at least try to. Autism becomes an explanation for the current behavior. But then we run into people who we tell off for saying or doing something stupid, and then they try and claim autism, not in an "I'm sorry, I'm still struggling" way - which I see plenty of, there is definitely a fine line between actual aspies and assburgers - but in a, "well it's a medical condition so you'll just have to get used to it" way, with little to no effort to correct their own behavior or find a way to cope with it...

Like I said, I've dealt with both. When I talk to my friends who genuinely have Asperger's, then when I explain the exact issues you brought up (this conversation/behavior is making our mutual friend uncomfortable, here's why, knock it off/try this instead/etc) they appreciate it. And I sure as hell appreciate it when people do the same for me when I need some damn basic social shit explained to me, and I don't even have autism, I've just had some screwed up portions of my childhood that I struggle with the aftereffects of today. These are not the people I'm talking about.

There are absolute assholes out there in the world, and unfortunately a few of them use Asperger's as an excuse for being an asshole. I'm sure that some of those people do actually have autism or some similar social function disorder that they cannot diagnose. I just don't see it as being possible that actual cases of undiagnosed disorders make up even half of those situations, let alone a majority or enough of a majority to be able to dismiss them or say "oh, okay" when they do/say shitty things and make no attempt to apologize for it or adjust their behavior when someone explains the problem to them.

[nyxelestia]

I'm not really trying to divide them, though I can see where that impression comes from looking back at my posts. And I can see what you mean by different experiences - I'm at community college, so the kind of Aspies I meet are much higher-functioning. People at that age need to have developed some functionality and have had plenty of time to gather some amount of coping skills. And as I've said several times, there are very likely people who actually have undiagnosed Asperger's and who are total assholes and using it as an excuse - but there are, at least in the environment I encounter this in, far more people who decide enough of their personality aligns with Asperger's to claim it just as a tool rather than an actual condition. I'm not trying to say the kind of people you are thinking of don't exist, they absolutely do - they just aren't the majority, or at least are so unlikely to be the majority for me to be able to let someone's bad behavior slide.

This is especially obvious when I hang out in a social group with lots of diagnosed Aspies in it. It becomes rather glaringly obvious that there is a difference between people who struggle in many or all areas of social interaction, versus those who are functioning just fine except for when they occasionally need to 'pull the Aspie card'.

And you have mentioned that this is a hot-button issue for you in one direction. It is a hot-button issue for me in the other direction, not because of my own problems, but because I'm hearing some of the diagnosed Aspies talk about how they are embarrassed to admit they have this problem outside of our social group, in large part because of the assholes who claim a serious neurological realignment to excuse their misbehavior. I can't take people who function in most areas of their life just fine, then only ever 'admit' they have Asperger's after some truly dickish behavior and only as an excuse to never change or even try to get better, when I'm friends with many people who actually have Asperger's who do their absolute best not to talk about or it admit it outside of this group. There are many reasons why someone might perhaps be embarrassed about having mild autism, but one of those reasons should not be people who are lying about it for their own immaturity and amusement.

[(Anonymous)]

"well it's a medical condition so you'll just have to get used to it" way, with little to no effort to correct their own behavior or find a way to cope with it...

people with actual DIAGNOSED asperger's can act like that too. i think that's basically the point stella is trying to make (and they're being a lot more patient than i feel right now) with you. i don't know what kind of people you've dealt with, but this whole thread is painting a very black and white picture of "real aspies" who apologize and try to change and "fake aspies" use it to act like jerks without regard. i'm sure there are people who self-diagnose or don't actually have it but you'd be surprised at the number of people who act like that and have a real diagnosis from a doctor. now if you think doctors are over-diagnosing, that's a different issue.

you're also not doing the autism community any favors by using terms like "assburgers" even if it's supposedly only regarding the people you think are faking. you're still turning a name for a disorder people actually have into a crude insult.

[nyxelestia]

I'm not trying to categorize everyone who has has Asperger's, I'm talking about two very particular subsets of this large group of people. I apologize for the impression of diving people into "good and bad" and that wasn't an impression I meant to give, but I still stand by my point. There are absolutely a lot of people out there who act like assholes, who don't have any kind of autism or psycho-/neurological conditions, who use a real condition that affects real people for no other reason than to excuse their own misbehavior.

I'm not saying there aren't actual aspie jerks who do a very similar thing. But in the environment I encounter this in (community college), they are extremely unlike to be the majority. There are a LOT of people with a variety of psychological and social disorders in my particular social group, and there is a lot expected in terms of functionality out of the kind of students who attend my school. By our age and life circumstances, people either develop coping mechanisms and self-awareness for whatever issues they have, or they are in the kind of center Stella mentioned above or are otherwise getting some serious external assistance, the kind of which almost no one in my social group has and very, very few people at my school have.