fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2494 ]

[ SECRET POST #2494 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2494 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Noel Fielding, formerly of The Mighty Boosh]

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[American Horror Story: Coven]

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[Once Upon A Time]

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[The Caves of Steel]

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[Steam Powered Giraffe]

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Notes:

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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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DA -- I don't get this attitude. So far, we've got Philip giving a really ambiguous "I love you" to, according to the writers, possibly both women. So Philip loves them both. And Aurora tells Mulan "I know love when I see it," because she can see that Mulan had feelings for Philip. And Philip's kiss woke Aurora, so Aurora loves Philip. And Mulan's in love with Aurora. All we'd need for a perfect OT3 is Aurora to love Mulan back. As I've said before, I want the them to be an awesome threesome, raising Aurora's baby together and having all the adventures and all the sex.

People can ship them as a threesome all they want, but the show itself is not going to make a threesome canon. In order to make Mulan/Aurora canon, one of two things has to happen. Either Phillip has to die, or Aurora has to walk away from her canon "true love" Phillip and choose Mulan, and that would undermine one of the basic premises of the entire show.

But it's already confirmed someone can have more that one true love.
I don't think the show will go into the implications that could have if someone meets more than one of their true love without the other(s) being dead, but if something happened to Phillp, and Mulan and Aurora got togheter that won't really undermine any basic premise.

I think the show is working off the premise that you can only have one true love at a time. If your true love dies, you can find another one, which is I think what's going on with Robin/Regina (which I hate for lots of reasons that aren't relevant here). So yes, if Phillip dies, Aurora can find true love again with Mulan. And if they have to do Aurora/Mulan, then I'd rather they do that than the alternatives, but I'd rather they didn't do Aurora/Mulan at all, and instead have Mulan find her true love with another woman.

But Philip was dead. That was when Mulan started to develop feelings for Aurora (and presumably, Aurora could have started to develop feelings for Mulan). Then he came back some sort of way and yes, it IS important to know how.

I just don't see why people are convinced that Philip and Aurora had some "committed, loving relationship" when we've NEVER seen any of that onscreen. Things are not always as they seem and just because they're supposedly happy doesn't mean they really are. Meanwhile, we have an entire season's worth of Mulan/Aurora scenes that people are willing to ignore, why? Because Philip's a guy?

People can ship them as a threesome all they want, but the show itself is not going to make a threesome canon.
I'm not sure which anon wrote this, but a few weeks ago, I'm pretty sure people would say the show would never make Mulan/Aurora canon, either. And they've gone a hell of a lot further in doing so than I would ever expect them to.

Phillip woke Aurora from the spell, the same one Snow was under, with true love's kiss. Like it or not, that's canon. Whether we like it or not, whether we've seen it or not, in the world of OUAT, true love is a real powerful thing and Phillip and Aurora have it. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to wake her. It would be changing the rules of the show regarding the whole "true love" conceit to say that Phillip and Aurora could fall out of love with each other, or fall In love with other people while both are still living. Why would people assume they don't have a committed loving relationship (and I personally read it that they're married) just because we haven't seen it? We haven't seen much of Cinderella and Thomas either, but I'm not seeing anyone suggesting they're on the brink of breaking up. Yes, in real life things change and feelings change and people change. But this is not real life and one of the central conceits of OUAT from the beginning has been that true love doesn't change or go away. I don't see any reason why it should be different for Phillip and Aurora just because the writers suddenly decided to throw the Sleeping Warrior shippers a bone.

Also, really? Aurora was positively glowing in that scene with Mulan. She couldn't wait to share her news about the baby. Did that look like a woman who was in an unhappy relationship?

And regarding a threesome, name me one other show on US network TV that has shown a threesome as more than a kinky onetime hookup, or as a weird case in a crime drama. Actually, I'd be surprised if you could name one on cable. Gay/lesbian relationships on TV may be rare, but they do exist. Threesomes don't. At all. I doubt OUAT is going to be the first.

It would be changing the rules of the show regarding the whole "true love" conceit to say that Phillip and Aurora could fall out of love with each other, or fall In love with other people while both are still living.

Except it wouldn't be. Way back in Season One, Emma kissing Graham broke the dark curse's effects on him, and Neal, who she's also supposed to love, was very much still alive. You can argue whether or not the writers intended for this to be the case all you want, it still happened in canon. So clearly it's possible to love someone enough to break a curse while also loving someone else.

There's also the fact that multiple kinds of true love are explicitly canon. No one outside of a very small fringe would say that Emma loves her son romantically, but her kiss was still able to break the sleeping curse. So that's at least one kind of platonic love, and I'd be surprised if we didn't see more.

Really, the definition of true love in the show seems to be less about having one true love, and more about truly (as in genuinely) loving someone.

Eh. Yes there are kinds of true love that are platonic, but if Phillip and Aurora are having a baby, theirs clearly isn't.

The Emma thing is a little less clear, I agree. I don't know if the writers intend for Neal to be Emma's true love or not. So that makes that situation murky. And did Emma's kiss break the spell for Graham because it was true love, or because she is the savior? Because Snow and Charming have true love, but their kisses didn't break the spell. And I think the show has shown that you can be in love without it being True Love. Emma being special by being the child of True Love insinuates that actual True Love is pretty rare. And like it or not, Phillip and Aurora being in True Love is canon. Which is why I still think killing Phillip is the only way to get Mulan and Aurora together without violating the show's own internal logic.

I never said Philip and Aurora are platonic, I said that platonic love is considered true love, which pretty much shoots down the whole one true love thing - you can have true love for multiple people of multiple sorts, so it stands to reason that it's possible, if not necessarily common, to be able to have true love of the same sort for more than one person simultaneously.

As for Snow and Charming, Snow's memory loss interfered with their true love in that one flashback, and we see the same thing with Lacey and Gold later, so it's down in canon that magical personality alteration can have an effect on true love - the people they are at that moment have to be truly in love, it doesn't carry over from their "real" selves.

I'd imagine being the product of true love is rare because in that world, marrying out of love is rare. Arranged marriage seems to be pretty common, as does marrying because it's the done thing - it brings security and heirs. There's also likely more at work there than just Emma being the product of true love, too, though that's neither going to be proved nor disproved unless we see another true love kid demonstrate or fail to have similar properties (Aurora and Phillip's baby, or Henry, since they do seem to be going that route with Emma and Neal).

I do agree that they probably won't put Mulan and Aurora together without killing Phillip off, since they will almost certainly not do a triad, and there's no other way to get them together without having someone come off badly. I just think true love isn't that immutable within the rules of the show.

Eh. Agree to disagree maybe? While I see where you're coming from, and I think there is room for different head canon takes on it, I honestly don't think the show intends to imply that you can be in romantic True Love with more than one person at a time. As you say, they're not going to do a triad, and since one of the other conceits of the show is the whole Happy Ending thing, what would even be the point?

I'm one of the anons from upthread - I too think it's most likely that, if Mulan and Aurora were to get together, Philip would probably be dead. My main point was that it pisses me off that people think Philip/Aurora is some sort of be-all end-all just because the show told us they are. Mulan and Aurora are the characters with the screen time who we've actually seen together.

Maybe it was just the writers throwing those shippers a bone. If so, it's more than I ever hoped they'd do. But, I still think there's room for Philip to be killed off again (again, we've barely seen his character or formed any attachment to him) and for Mulan and Aurora to end up together. If that happened, it would be totally groundbreaking for a show like OUAT. Honestly, even the scene we got so far was pretty groundbreaking. I just think there's a less black-and-white way to look at it than "the show told us Aurora loves Philip, therefore she loves Philip." What we were shown was a season of her connection to Mulan, not Philip, and I think that means something.

What we were shown was a season of her connection to Mulan, not Philip, and I think that means something.

Well, agree to disagree again? As I said in one of my responses below, I don't think the writers had any idea of doing Mulan/Aurora at that point. That was the very beginning of S2, and according to their own comments the writers were working more from a "two women in love with the same man" play book than the "two women in love with each other" play book. And it wasn't actually a season, it was nine episodes max, and probably more like seven or eight, because I'm not sure they were in every single episode of that first nine-episode arc. Regardless, we never see Aurora again after episode 2.09 Queen of Hearts until she pops up at the very end of the season with Phillip and Mulan on the beach with Neal. (Mulan we do see in one other episode - 2.11 The Outsider, which was the one with Belle and Phillip as a monster, which presumably happens pre-curse.)

just think there's a less black-and-white way to look at it than "the show told us Aurora loves Philip, therefore she loves Philip."

But saying it this way sounds like you're saying "the show didn't show us that Aurora loves Phillip, therefore she does not love Phillip." Which I can't agree with.

I don't think the writers' intention matters, nor the precise number of episodes Mulan and Aurora shared. What I meant was that Mulan and Aurora have had more screentime together than Philip has had, period. And that shippers read a romantic relationship into that screentime, which was at least partially confirmed in the text, from Mulan's perspective, at least.

What the show has given us regarding Aurora/Philip is that his kiss broke the spell. Therefore, we're told that they're "true love." But I haven't seen any of their interactions that have convinced me that they're in love. All I'm saying is that the show TELLS us Aurora loves Philip, but it has SHOWN the development of Mulan's feelings for Aurora, and arguably Aurora's for Mulan (if she does in fact love them both). It's a telling vs. showing thing. I don't know who Aurora loves, or if she loves them both, or if she loves someone more. I just think it remains to be seen.

Also, to add to my comments above - 1) Phillip wasn't actually dead. He was taken by the Wraith. The comments from the TV Guide article linked above indicate they always had a plan to bring him back. And 2) I think people are assuming that the writers were deliberately planning and hinting at Aurora/Mulan during that time when they were traveling together, and I personally don't believe that. I don't think they had any idea of that then - from what they've said, they were working from the angle of two women being in love with the same man, not being in love with each other. As someone else said below, I doubt it came up until they were working on S3 and just thought, sure, why not.

if something happened to Phillp, and Mulan and Aurora got togheter that won't really undermine any basic premise.

No I wasn't saying it would. I meant that if Aurora leaves Phillip, her "true love", to be with Mulan, that would undermine the whole "true love" concept which is one of the basic premises of the show.

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[ SECRET POST #2494 ]

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