[ SECRET POST #2503 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2503 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 105 secrets from Secret Submission Post #358.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I do think that people who call her ugly most of the time are just reacting to the hype. But on the other hand, attractiveness is completely subjective, so there could be people who legitimately don't think she's attractive.

[(Anonymous)]

^I wouldn't say "completely subjective" - I think some traits are seen as attractive or at least not unattractive by most humans, whereas some traits are seen as unattractive or at least not attractive by most.

I'm not talking about the little things, but something like, I don't face. Face symmetry. Being physically fit.

[(Anonymous)]

Just because most cultures have decided that some things are more attractive than others doesn't make them objectively so. That is still subjective attraction based on cultural norms, its just that more people find those things attractive than not.

[(Anonymous)]

Hang on, I know there are cultural differences. But there are some things that are seen as attractive throughout every culture. There is a lot of difference in opinion in what beauty is, I agree, but I think we've evolved to generally value certain traits. Not everyone, granted, but generally everyone. I'm pretty sure science has proven that people are attracted to face symmetry, for example, in all cultures.

[(Anonymous)]

Again, that still doesn't show that its inherent attractiveness rather than cultural norms that just happen to have developed across every (or most) cultures.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you missed my comment.

Not cultural standards of beauty.

Genetic standards of beauty. Things that humans have literally evolved to prize. Not cultural.

[(Anonymous)]

And I think its ridiculous to assume that its evolution/biological rather than cultural. Unless you buy into evolutionary psychology, in which case there is no point in having this conversation since that's nothing more than often offensive speculation touted as science when it is nothing of the sort.

[(Anonymous)]

That's nice, but you're wrong. You can get mad at science if you want for finding certain trends among all cultures, and very sound theory about the science of choosing mates per physical appearance, and keep your wishy-washy "it's all entirely 100% relative" stuff if it makes you feel better, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

NA I'd like to see what skience (I have two science-related degrees and have studied ev psych) has to say about my choice of "mate" (I'm a lesbian and my preferences in face and body type have very little to do with what science says I should find attractive.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a lesbian, too, so I'm not sure what card you're trying to play. It certainly doesn't negate the research done that shows people still, in general, find facial symmetry and other characteristics indicative of a "healthy" person to be more attractive. If you're arguing against the research, by all means, but don't hide behind two "science related degrees" and your gayness to insist that beauty is totally relative and entirely a result of culture.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt No, my dear, merely that I appear to be an exception to the rule ev psych people insist on, and I cringe at you blithely talking in general terms about "mates". You're trying to generalise all people in order to generalise about universal standards of beauty, I'm trying to say it doesn't explain everything or everyone. Your logic is faulty.

[(Anonymous)]

My logic? Oh please, I've been very careful to use words like "trends" and "generally" - as would be the conclusion of such research anyway - obviously there are exceptions. Saying that research indicates that people generally do find certain traits attractive independent of culture doesn't mean I'm telling everyone who they are allowed to and not allowed to be attracted to. Don't know where you got that, considering your original argument was "beauty is totally relative and a result of culture" and now it's... "how dare you"?

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Geez, this got out of hand fast...

Look, I have to chime in and say that other anon is at least right that scientific studies have been conducted to determine whether such a concept as "universal standard of beauty" can be proven to exist. And while of course no tests are absolutely conclusive and the conclusions only pointed toward trends and commonalities, some of the tests do indicate that people have purely biological impulses that steer them toward certain traits in potential partners: one such test involved a blind trial of monitoring subtle hormonal cues the body gives off when a subject is given different scents to smell from several individuals. It's got nothing to do with the ev-psych school, or what the media believes you should find attractive.

And before you bring it up, the test subjects were screened by gender, age and sexuality. But really, I find it weird and irrelevant that you even brought up being a lesbian in the first place, because it's not like we're arguing that gender is an universal standard of attraction. You can still fall into general biological trends even within the boundary of your sexual orientation.