[ SECRET POST #2505 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2505 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #358.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 16 - one persistent repeat spammer (I have tried to keep your non-repeats, however!) ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

They start out equally bad, only Cersei has more reasons to be so given the way her father treated her, her abusive marriage, and the way women are treated in general in that world. Not that those things excuse her actions, but they help to explain them whereas Jaime is just that way without as much reason. So Jaime starts for me a few rungs down from her.

Then he's given development that she isn't. Which, to me, says more about the author, especially given that when we're finally given her POV we get none of the characterization of her that other POVs hinted at.

I'd certainly agree at this point in the series, he's a better person and she hasn't learned much at all. I still like her better as a character and find her more sympathetic even though she's a worse person at this point.

[(Anonymous)]

Cersei and Jaime were both raised by an abusive father. If that's a reason for Cersei to be fucked up, that's a reason for Jaime to be fucked up. And if Cersei had to deal with being married to a shit, Jaime had to deal with being widely reviled for killing a tyrannical murderous tyrant who was fighting in open warfare against his father. I think that Cersei probably has more reasons for being fucked up, due to as you say women have it bad in ASOIAF-land, but they both have plenty of reasons for being fucked up.

[(Anonymous)]

Jaime was their father's favorite, so while he certainly got some of the abuse, he didn't have it anywhere near as bad as Cersei or Tyrion did.

And frankly, Jaime did deserve some of the flack he got since he didn't just "kill" Aerys, he murdered him. He had his reasons, certainly, but there were better ways to go about it (and plenty of other people who could have done it). At least, given the morals of that particular world, a kingsguard murdering his own king was a bad thing, even if Aerys needed to die.

And even so, being hated for actions that in the morals of the world were wrong is not remotely comparable to the way Robert treated Cersei.

[(Anonymous)]

Please point out who else in the room was going to murder Aerys before he blew up the city? Because there was NOT ONE PERSON making a move to do that but Jaime.

I actually think Jaime has flaws, but dude, this is NOT something you can tear him down for. It was an impossible situation, and if he had not done it, no one else would have and everyone would have died.

[(Anonymous)]

He does have reason. He murdered a king to save the city and got ostracized for it.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, I thought it was strongly hinted from what he told Tommen at Lord Tywin's funeral that Jaime has PTSD.

[(Anonymous)]

Not the same thing as abuse at all. He did something that was at least questionable and could/should have been done differently, even if his motives were right. And he was ostracized for doing something that went against the morals, such as they are, of that world. That's not the same thing as being abused or even remotely close.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Oh, and also, there is no evidence to suggest that he suddenly became the person he was after that. He and Cersei were already sleeping together, and it seems pretty clear that they were both horrible people already before he killed the king.

[(Anonymous)]

and they were also both horrible people before Cersei married Robert so

[(Anonymous)]

We don't know what Jaime was doing when he was ten, but I think it's a safe bet that Cersei's little friend didn't fall into that well on her own.

[(Anonymous)]

How? What little we know of Jaime's past was that he was the only one to show any kindness to Tyrion. Nothing to indicate that he had done anything horrible before he became the Kingslayer.

[(Anonymous)]

He participated in Lord Tywin's deception of Tyrion--the one where he "confessed" to Tyrion that Tysha, whom Tyrion had thought was an innocent farmer's daughter he and Jaime had rescued from ruffians, was actually a prostitute Jaime had engaged to...er, make a man of Tyrion. Not that it made a particle of difference to what the poor girl suffered, but for half his life Tyrion believed Tysha deceived him; the whole affair helped make Tyrion the cynic he is.

[(Anonymous)]

Brienne has it pretty bad as a woman too, an ugly woman no less, and she's not a complete sociopath. Likewise Sansa has been terrorized nonstop and has reason to believe everyone she loves is dead but she's still a kind and compassionate person. Some people are just rotten.

[(Anonymous)]

Of course. I didn't say any of that excuses Cersei, just explains it. Different people react to abuse differently. Cersei is still a bad person, I just think Jaime is too and with less of a reason.

[(Anonymous)]

As a child Cersei twisted her baby brother's penis until he screamed and drowned one of her friends. She was just a shitty person.

[(Anonymous)]

Now, see, when you tell me a ten-year-old was acting like that, I conclude there are severe psychological problems and the person probably didn't have a choice in how they turned out. Something got wired wrong. It doesn't make them any less dangerous, but it makes me pity them rather than hate them.

[(Anonymous)]

Cersei killed her friend long before her shitty marriage.