[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

If someone refers to any character as a Mary Sue, I automatically disregard anything they might have to say.

And... I think you are grossly over exaggerating the romance angle. Sure, there was some, obviously. But it didn't mean that the show stopped being about adventures in space and time.

[(Anonymous)]

Not at first, but it's definitely became much more of a focus, as the series went on. Moffat writes what he knows, and what he knows is slapstick dramedy. Which is fine, as far as that goes, but then it gets too big for him, and gets out of hand. Thus, the frantic pacing and whiplash plotting that passes for "epic" in Moffat's understanding. Neither of which are my thing, personally.

Sorry, fauxkaren. I know you're defending the show you love. :-) I'm just disappointed, because I know it can be so much better than it is.

[fauxkaren]

Well, I too am disappointed in Moffat's handling of the show. I think he routinely bites off more than he can chew and his climaxes never live up to the hype he builds. And I am 500% done with time loops.

But I think that while Moffat's romances aren't great (Doctor/River makes me want to fling myself off a cliff), they're also towards the bottom of the list of his issues as a writer.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I agree, the space opera stuff is the least of Moffat's problems. I get plot whiplash from reading the synopses, I don't even bother watching anymore. He keeps referring to the 50th as "epic" which just makes me feel ill.

Taking the reboot as a whole, from Nine forwards, I think they definitely over-humanized the Doctor in a way that did a disservice to the show's roots, IMO. The whole companions-as-love-interest thing certainly didn't begin with Moffat. But I, for one, will be quite happy if it ends with Moffat.

[(Anonymous)]

DA, I just rewatched the show without nostalgia goggles and I have to say...the romance is unbearable at time. I actually finally understood what Queen Victoria was on about in Tooth & Claw with the inappropriate giggling.

You're clearly a 10 and Rose shipper and that fine. The first time around I didn't ship them but didn't mind the romance either because I was so in love with the show. Stepping back and looking at it objectively though? There was a lot of romance, most of Martha's run actually focused on Rose instead of Martha and most of Donna's run was focused on 1) her consoling 10 that Rose was gone and 2) how Rose was coming back. She did not leave the show for a single second while RTD was writing and everything she did was glorified as the Most Perfect Thing Ever (even if she faces some consequences at first, it's later smoothed over and turned into a fairytale ending).

It's very grating, and I say this as someone who used to love Rose unconditionally.

Moral of the story? Don't wait so long to rewatch the show that you can have an objective view of it.

[fauxkaren]

Maybe you should rewatch without the hater goggles.

Just a thought.

You seem to be seeing what you want to see in the show, as opposed to what is actually there.

[(Anonymous)]

You're taking this really personally. I agree with them, and I'm even a Ten/Rose shipper. Objectively, it detracted a little from the overall storyline. That doesn't mean it wasn't fun from a shipper's perspective, but I could easily see how a newcomer/more casual fan/non-shipper fan would gag over the amount of it.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Not everyone watches the series with Rose/Ten goggles on. Rose is a great character but all the shippy stuff overshadowed everything else for me, and I'm sure others felt the same way. Labeling everyone who doesn't ship it "haters" doesn't help your argument sound more rational.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah, Tooth and Claw was nearly unbearable. I was totally in sympathy with Queen Victoria. One of the prime examples of why I like Nine/Rose better than Ten/Rose.

[tree_and_leaf]

This. I loved Rose, and her relationship with the Doctor in the first season (I didn't ship it myself, but I could see why people did, and I do think Piper and Eccleston had better chemistry than she did with Tennant). I like David Tennant, he's a fine actor, but Ten was such a dickhead at times, and he and Rose seemed to bring out the worst in each other.

He was great with Donna, though, and I say that as someone who fully expected to hate her.

[(Anonymous)]

Ten was such a dickhead at times, and he and Rose seemed to bring out the worst in each other

Can you give examples how they seemed to bring out the worst in each other? Yeah, Tooth and Claw was pretty much them in their honeymoon phrase and they were obviously focused on each other (understandable) but other than that?

[(Anonymous)]

and most of Donna's run was focused on 1) her consoling 10 that Rose was gone and 2) how Rose was coming back.

Go on butt-hurt anon, watch the series again and count the scenes where Donna was consoling 10 about Rose. And while you're at it, why don't you count the minutes and how much it was out of the show's whole screen time. Go on, take a look! I want to know what you'll find.

The same goes for Martha. How many scenes in the end were there about Rose? Because I will laugh at your face if you seriously say that most of Martha's run was focused on Rose. Like... seriously.

Your issues with Rose are showing and they are obviously coloring your perception.

[(Anonymous)]

"If someone refers to any character as a Mary Sue, I automatically disregard anything they might have to say."


I only take Mary Sue claims seriously (and even then I take it as an opinion thing) when they extensively back up their arguments and have good reasons. If they can prove that the character

* Black holes /warps the world to make things about them
* Overshadow others constantly
* Warp characterization of other characters
* is not negatively effected by their flaws

then I'll consider that yeah, that character could be a Mary Sue.

But it's not often I hear good reasons and justifications for characters that aren't blatant Sues .