fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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The thing that really irks me about SJWs is that everything has to be PERFECT. Say an artist writes a song about marriage equality that hits the mainstream, a monumentally progressive thing, they complain it's by a cis white guy. Movie has great POC or woman main character? Well, why aren't they all POC or women? Canonical gay character? It's Bisexual erasure! Like they don't take into account how looking at the world now, some of the things they complain about will not realistically happen. I know progress is important, but complaining about why good things aren't BETTER doesn't help.

"Perfect is the enemy of good."

Holy fuck, I'm guessing that you have followed the shitshow around Lily Allen's latest video? Some people are never happy and it's like they intentionally miss the point. Who the hell is even going to try soon, if this is always the end result.

Lily Allen has a new video?

...the video is kind of racist. Every single negative image she depicts is black. They aren't a multicultural assortment of twerking women. She's basically saying "I'M NOT LIKE THESE.... PEOPLE" *sweeps hand over amassed black asses*

This is a situation where the video's the problem, not the song.

Yeah the video actually is not great and the message you're talking about is only reinforced in the lyrics (hey let's talk some more about how all rap is about is big cars and jewelry!). It's great that she's talking about how females in pop music doesn't need to be sexualized, but I wish she didn't feel the need to make her point by doing that shit.

DA

But they're not all black. And I really didn't get the whole "I'm not like these people" vibe that you're talking about. With the looks shared between her and the other dancers it was more like they were all in on the 'joke' and equals.

Yeah, I was a bit misinformed--I just watched it again.

However, all the heinous stuff seems to be spotlighting the black women. You don't think that's a problem? I don't think Lilly Allen set out to make a racist video. I just think that's what happened.

She was making fun of Miley Cyrus I thought? Just like she was making fun of Robin Thicke.

Eh, I'm not a fan of "satire" that's just copying what it's supposedly satirizing and going "remember this? isn't it funny?"

Yeah pretty much.

I don't ship myself, but I'm not too keen on if you don't ship any gay couples you must be homophobic thing either.

Or troll em.

This is my big issue with the SJW thing. I don't think it's a bad thing to criticize things, or want things to be better. For example, I feel absolutely comfortable criticizing that there aren't that many POC characters on Once Upon a Time. However, that doesn't erase the fact that there are a lot of really fantastic female characters on the show, and I think it should be praised for that.

Things can do things both well and poorly, and things can be flawed but still be an overall net good. It's OK to like things that aren't perfect, and I think a lot of SJW types have issues with that. Not everything's in black and white.

Agreed!

Movie has great POC or woman main character? Well, why aren't they all POC or women? Canonical gay character? It's Bisexual erasure!

Oh god, that shit drives me nuts. And I think it's starting to make people really self-conscious about their own works and characters, going on the amount of "is (x) thing problematic?" questions I've been seeing around.

I mean, I like diverse casts. But I think they're no less diverse because they contain straight people or white people or dudes. (Or even straight white dudes! Shock! Horror! Can such foul creatures really be!? XD) And I'm not a fan of trying to "force" character traits in general. It makes things harder for the writer, and the characters come out obviously stilted.

Ugh yes, or my new favourite: Canon gay character? Well why isn't he trans!

This canon trans character is conforming to gender stereotypes. Unacceptable!

This canon cis character is NOT conforming to gender stereotypes - they should be trans!

I'd laugh if the outrage wasn't so true.

Yeah, it bugs me too that some of these people seem to have no concept of the term 'baby steps.' Like the Macklemore thing. I see so many people complaining "What about all the actually gay rappers making songs about gay marriage, why does Same Love have so many more hits than Mary Lambert's She Keeps me Warm, etc etc" but the thing is: it's not like mainstream radio decided what they really needed was one -- and only one, because pop culture is like Highlander -- song about gay marriage and they looked over all these songs by gay rappers and then chose the white guy's. That would be a thing worth getting mad about and being annoyed with Macklemore for. But that's not what happened. A cis white guy who was already popular wrote a song about gay marriage and got it on the radio with the power of being popular. A significant part of the song is sung by a lesbian artist (and without Same Love Mary Lambert's other video wouldn't have even half those hits, but let's ignore that because social justice) and the cover of the single features Macklemore's actually gay uncle and his partner. And now that a white guy has used his white guy privilege to get this song on the air, that means next time an actually gay rapper tries to get an equality-themed song on the air, maybe the radio stations won't be so quick to say 'no, that won't ever get popular, no one will listen to it.' Does it suck that it had to be a cis white guy who took the first step, because no one would let the minorities in the door? Sure. But without that step, who knows if anyone else would be able to step up too and for my part I'd call that a net positive.

Actually I think pop music is a fair bit less queer than the 80s and early 90s. But it's possible to chew gum and walk at the same time, and it's possible to praise a song as a good thing, and note that there's about a century of history of straight people selling songs about LGBT people. (Take a look at how Mae West made her name by getting banned on Broadway for example.)

EDIT: Walk, chew gum, and note that we've seen almost a half-dozen songs hyped as a "gay rights anthem" in our lifetimes.

Edited 2013-11-19 03:26 (UTC)

Pop music was so, so much more queer in the 80s / early 90s. It's kind of remarkable how much it's changed especially given the general shifts in societal attitudes towards homosexuality. I wonder why that was and is. Just one of those things maybe.

I guess I define SJW differently. SJW isn't criticism, because the whole point of queer/feminist theory is "hey, look at this" not "this is bad, and you're a bad person for liking it." It's why we can have entire dissertations about Star Trek, which was progressive but in no way radical or perfect.

SJWism in my opinion is characterized by two things:

1. A failure to understand that nothing is perfect, and we criticize because we like a work and think it can handle the criticism.

2. An insistence on internet shibboleths, boundaries, and taboos rather than pragmatic coalition-building with people who have overlapping and fuzzy identities.

I love that you used the word "shibboleths".

Because I read The Shibboleth of Fëanor.

This is the SJW thing over Frozen to a T. And what's great is that it's getting good reviews and when we got that first trailer with awkward!Anna, some of them were all "Anna is me!!"

Like..really? You say that now? After complain about how the princesses are white and and all that shit?

Ugh.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

SJW rant

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That's why the best thing to do is ignore them.

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