fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2512 ]

[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2512 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 062 secrets from Secret Submission Post #359.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

So what you're saying is, damaging the seals (assuming there are any) and dunking your head underwater to destroy the receiver/transmitter through which they set the bombs off is exactly what you should do.

But what if doing so also sets the bombs off?

How? They've set the bombs up to be triggered by salt water somehow? How did they accomplish this? What do you use to trigger a bomb with salt water - either electrically or with a spark - that won't also be destroyed by said water with the seals broken? Remember, anything you could possibly use to trigger it remotely is now destroyed. What do you use to "detect water submersion" and how does it trigger without electricity or heat? Moreover, how do you differentiate between participants actively trying to destroy their collars and participants who accidentally got their heads wet while fighting?

I fully buy that a bunch of high school kids wouldn't come up with this, but we're adults here, many of us college-educated and some of us scientists and engineers. It's obviously going to play out differently, and we'll have different solutions available to us.

Maybe there's a signal constantly being emitted from somewhere and the bomb goes off when it's interrupted. Or some other means of setting it off when it's tampered with - IE, you could have a mechanical trigger that's flipped when the seal is broken that won't be fucked up by salt water. The important thing, I think, is that you don't know for a fact that this is the case, and you can't really experiment, because if you make any mistaken assumptions, you are dead.

Moreover, how do you differentiate between participants actively trying to destroy their collars and participants who accidentally got their heads wet while fighting?

I don't think this would be a huge issue for people who are kidnapping a bunch of kids and forcing them to fight to the death.

(all that said, SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS the end of the novel does actually end with two of the last three contestants removing their collars and faking their own deaths - but they can only do that because the third remaining contestant is a superbadass with secret information he got by hacking into the government's computers, so it's complicated, and difficult, and relies on deux ex machina foreknowledge, but still, you are kind of right SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS)

The problem with a mechanical trigger is that that could only act as a primer to set off the actual trigger for the explosive - which would have to be something capable of producing a spark, be it through heat or electricity, both of which would be destroyed by submersion.

The thing is, you're almost certainly dead anyway since only one person survives, and survival means doing something ethically reprehensible. Making a few calculated observations about the collar - does it have a seal? how is it receiving and transmitting signals? what kind of explosive is it likely to have based on the size/shape/mechanism? - then acting accordingly is by far the best option. At least, it would be for me.

(Oh then I'm completely right -_- if he "hacks" anything to deactivate the collars then it has extremely sensitive electronic equipment in it, and it would never survive immersion. Any diving computer is fucked eight ways from sunday if a seal is so much as scratched - and they could never make any trigger sensitive enough to go off at just a scratch and still have people physically fight each other.)

I just think that's way too many assumptions with way too high a risk factor. But I suppose there's not a lot of really good options when you're in that situation, and trying to disable the collar is a more optimal way to go out than others. I just don't think it would be anywhere near easy to disable the things. Maybe the best percentage play - but it would be more accurate to say it was the least bad percentage play IMO.

(Nah, he doesn't hack the collar, he knows how to disable it because before he went on the island he hacked into the government's computers and learned how to disable it. The actual disabling doesn't involve hacking, IIRC)

Hahaha "way too high risk factor" is an odd value judgement when your other plan is "murder everyone you see and hope none of them have decided to just hide from everyone, effectively committing group murder/suicide when the time runs out".

If you hide yourself, you've got three days to make observations about the collar and how it works before committing to a course of action. That's a lot of time when it's literally the only thing you have to do and if you don't do it you'll die.

(How does he disable them, though?)

I think this is one of those cases where I'm disagreeing with the way you're saying something more than what you're saying, and that's kind of a dumb way to be. So I'll cede the point.

SPOILER SECTION (We don't actually know because the disabling takes place offscreen for plot reasons - there's a whole big fake out thing, you don't actually know that's what he did until a while later. So I don't really know the answer. And I don't think that the author really would have been able to describe the process anyway, or the mechanics of the actual devices for that matter.) SPOILER SECTION

The collar is made with Stainless Titanium which is can resist to impact, oxydation and water. Also, the collar is protected with plastic sealeant so is protecting the microphone, GPS locator, alarm system and the explosive detonator from water and shock. The detection system is using satellite control system, so the collar can be controlled from long distance at the operation base. The microphone is a military spy model which is can recorded everything up for 60 hours. With the time-alarm beeping system, it can indicated the carrier if he is almost out of the map, danger zones and explosive detonation time.

(From the wiki)

The island is also surrounded by military ships. On the off chance you somehow figure out the collar, they are there to shoot anybody trying to leave the island, and, if necessary, shell it to oblivion.

Edited 2013-11-19 03:31 (UTC)

So, damage the plastic sealant, like I said?

With all that shit inside it, salt water would destroy it pretty much instantly.

The military ships pose more of a problem once you get the collar off, but a) they're manned by people, people who could well be there "because it's a job" or "because orders" with no real desire or intention to kill innocent people and thus who could be swayed to "accidentally" let you pass, b) if there are caves on the island - as Japanese troops so adequately proved for months in the South Pacific - you can take cover from any potential shelling. And that was aerial bombardment, too, not the limited angle of attack you'd have from a ship. They would literally have to wait you out, or go ashore to try to find armed, murderous, furious people with a strong will to live, which they have no idea where they are (because the collars are destroyed) - which again, the Japanese proved was a deadly proposition, even in the face of overwhelming odds. If you picked off even a couple and acquired their weapons, it could turn into a bloodbath. You'd already know the ins and outs of the island, and how to hide on it, much much better than they would. Guerrilla warfare has beaten many a superior force in terms of numbers and arms. When you get the chance, raid a ship at night, seize it, and go. In international waters put out a distress call re: piracy to the nearest navy. They'll show up armed to the teeth.

Hopefully, though, during the weeks or months you're sitting in cover while they shell the island, the people watching this on Google Earth mention it to the UN/NATO/other governmental bodies with an interest in human rights abuses and somebody shows up to save the day.

Edited 2013-11-19 03:44 (UTC)

Can I just say that I utterly adore you in this thread? People are telling you that the setting forces you to kill or be killed but you refuse to accept this as an answer and keep asking why you can't try X, Y, or Z. And you're right, even if you're wrong and you get killed, it's still a better option than murdering schoolmates and/or dying.

I'd say you'd do pretty well in such a situation, or at least die with honor. (Uh, I hope that doesn't come off as creepy.)

Hahah no it's not creepy, it's insightful. That's really the position I'm arguing from. I just can't see why I would choose to risk my life to murder my fellow unwilling victims of some insane criminal enterprise over risking my life to potentially save us all. There's just no reason to choose the former, no matter how long the odds. Besides, even if I did die in the attempt, it might help someone else figure out how to get the collars off. Which would help save not only the rest of the people on the island, but everyone else who came after.

If you're going to die anyway, what do you have to lose? You might as well go down fighting the real enemy.

In short... you're going to die. :P

There's two people specifically on the island with your thinking.

One is murdered by the class sociopath. The other murdered by THEIR ASSUMED FRIENDS.

Edited 2013-11-19 12:47 (UTC)

Thing is though....you can trick it, like the three last people did. :P

If anyone can figure that out, then you at least have a few people that can, indeed, get off the island alive.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2512 ]

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