[ SECRET POST #2525 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2525 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 063 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, that's why I like her.

Okay, not really. Not in that inflammatory way. But when fandom will woobify the most ridiculous damn characters, and even the narrative seems to go out of its way to provide some kind of sympathy and redemption for an actual, historical *monster* of a woman, yeah. I'm gonna cheer on Laveau. The woman lived through actual centuries of watching her people be oppressed through violence and horror, while all the white Salem descendants, as she understands it, took a lot of their knowledge, claimed it for their own, and left them nothing but tension and the occasional blood feud. Like, damn, I'm not even sure that's an allegory; that's just what colonialism and racism look like.

Obviously I'm not going to apologize for everything she's done, but if Madame LaLaurie gets to be humanized, if Fiona gets to be humanized, then Laveau deserves at least as much (especially when her motivations are actually pretty clear: her people have suffered, and this is revenge). Do I want real life people to really behave the way she has? No, that's terrifying! But it is a "horror story". It's right there in the title and everything. And of all the awful things people have done on this show, at least hers make sense and get at a bigger picture of the world. If you find her terrifying, you should, because the horror underlying her story is the anger so many people (especially Black people, especially especially Black women) are expected to suppress every day while they watch untold tiny violences be enacted on people who look just like them.

[feotakahari]

I'm not black, and maybe it's not the same. But when a boy who shows emotions gets called a fag, that doesn't make me want to kill people. When the WBC storms a funeral with their picket signs, that doesn't make me want to kill people. When I read on the news about someone who murdered someone else for being a transsexual, that doesn't make me want to kill people (though I do want the murderer jailed.) I want a social order that's fair and equitable, but if you're rooting for someone who's killing people, I reserve the right to find you creepy as hell.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Maybe it wasn't totally clear, but in the context of the show, if you're rooting for anybody, you're rooting for someone who's either killing people or probably going to. (Except maybe Nan. Bless Nan.) In some other show or ideal world, I'd prefer they learn a lesson about how violence only begets violence (with Laveau still getting some righteous indignation in), but in this one, it's all going to get bloodier and weirder before the end. I'm okay with pulling for Marie Laveau in that context.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

What I'm getting at is, of all the "Big Bad" types in the show, I would rank the violences thusly:

1. Lady who tortures and murders just because she can/enjoys it.

2. Serial killer who kills people just because he can/enjoys it.

3. Lady who kills people because they get in the way.

4. Guy who kills people because he's paid to (and also really enjoys it).

5. Lady who kills people because she's fucking had it with racist oppression and has witnessed its violent outcomes for centuries (Laveau).

6. The rest of the people who've killed so far. Maybe.

[(Anonymous)]

5. But it's not even about racism anymore? It's about murdering people who aren't even racist (as far as we know) just because they're witches and that means they're the enemy.

Did she ask the witch hunter she send to kill them to spare the black witch who also lives with them? No and she has made pretty clear she thinks that everyone who dares to not agree with her and her killings is her enemy.

[darkmanifest]

If you don't feel like hurting anyone over any horrible behavior, ever, and can't empathize with those who do, then you kind of disturb me, too, because I wonder what'll happen if/when you encounter something that makes you feel that kind of anger and you're not accustomed enough to it to handle it reasonably and move on like those us who feel it know how to do. Beware the fury of a patient person and all.

[feotakahari]

Modern pop culture has a standardized conception of the "dark side" everyone supposedly has. I never had a dark side growing up, so I was always afraid I'd get one when I was grown. But now I'm at least theoretically grown, and I still don't feel like I have a dark side. It's not like I'm trying not to be angry or jealous or hateful, and I do get angry occasionally. I just don't like the idea of hurting people, no matter what they've done.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I hear ya, and I think it's strange/sad that you're getting called out for NOT feeling like hurting anyone (over horrible behavior or not). And then it gets implied that you're a ticking time bomb of suppressed rage. Seriously?

Sometimes people confuse me.

[ill_omened]

It's because you're actually a decent person.

Congrats.

(this sounds sarecastic but srsly, it's in good faith - you're the kind of person who can make the right descisions)

[(Anonymous)]

But when fandom will woobify the most ridiculous damn characters, and even the narrative seems to go out of its way to provide some kind of sympathy and redemption for an actual, historical *monster* of a woman, yeah.

Yes, this.

I swear the butthurt from fandom that black fans have dared to say shit contrary to mainstream fandoms' pov is ridiculous.

[(Anonymous)]

mte @ your last point. the fact that many fans feel sympathy for lalaurie because of this is so gross.

[(Anonymous)]

So much yes to this.

You're giving the show more credit than I would

[(Anonymous)]

The show seems to be taking a character based on a real historical white woman who did horrific, horrific things and giving her a redemption storyline. It also seems to be taking a character based on a real historical black woman who was an influential religious figure and not implicated in anything horrific, and giving her an agenda of killing everyone she doesn't like because she's (however justifiably) pissed off.

It is, I suppose, theoretically possible that these storytelling choices were not made due to racism, but it really really looks like racism.

Re: You're giving the show more credit than I would

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yeah, I certainly agree that the show has some serious problems with making her a/the villain in the first place. I have very complicated thoughts on her as a villain, primarily because the racist history makes it way too hard to separate her from a lot of tropes, not to mention what you said about taking a real Black woman who was actually pretty awesome and making her into the villain. This show is chock full of problems. I think all the credit for the character's likeability goes to Angela Bassett more than the writers.

I'm just saying, if we enjoy her as a villain or someone in that gray space in between, there are legitimate reasons to, especially in the context of a show that's trying to get us to sympathize with Madame LaLaurie.

Re: You're giving the show more credit than I would

[(Anonymous)]

the real laveau owned slaves

[shinyhappypanic]

totally agree, and it does piss me off that it's considered socially acceptable (for lack of a better term) among the fandom to support delphine while marie laveau is just the worst villain ever and if you support her you're crazy and out of line. I mean come on guys.