fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2525 ]

[ SECRET POST #2525 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2525 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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However, I don't think she was shitty to her friends, so much as didn't hang with them as much, but she was pretty shitty to Dawn/abandoned her a lot. I do, however, think she was ridiculously shitty to Spike.

Additionally, considering Angel spent a hundred years in Hell and came out okay, I thought it was absurd for Buffy to be depressed an entire season, and I was sick of that "woe is me" shit. What a stupid thing to be depressed over (and yes, I am someone who battles with depression, in case anyone thinks I'm being an insensitive dick. I'm not). Letting her actions off the hook just cause she was depressed is not an excuse, nor does it make it okay, and if anyone who has depression copes with it in that way...well, you're a shit, that's what. A big, stinking pile of shit. And so was Buffy.

Heroine my ass. Anya was right--they should have just let her stay gone. I still would have watched the show. And damn it, I love a few eps from s6, but I can't stand to even it watch it as a whole anymore.

Why does having depression suddenly give you the excuse to judge how other people cope with their problems? You should know even better than anyone that it's different for everyone. And what the hell is considered "a stupid thing to be depressed over" anyway? People get beaten down in life over much less concrete things than, oh, death.

And finally, it wasn't as if she remained maladaptive forever and never recovered. Being depressed "an entire season" seems not unreasonable; in real life depression can be cyclical, people have a bad month, a bad year, then get better.

Not an excuse, but, well, back in the day, since Buffy wank hasn't been around very much, you couldn't say *anything* about Buffy in season 6 unless you were someone who had previously suffered depression. And even if you did and disagreed with the masses, you were crucified for it. I wanted to make my position clear, and the place it was coming from.

Additionally, I know a lot of people who struggle with depression, and I can tell you I've never seen (or heard) of anyone behave in the manner in which Buffy did in season 6, and for months on end. And to me, an entire season of it seemed very unreasonable, and depression for depression's sake. And I agree with whoever said up thread--yes, she died and went to heaven. A human life--particularly a slayer's--is quite short in the grand scheme of eternity. It's not like she was going to be in Sunnyhell forever. I thought the storyline was poorly done and absurd. And hey, I have the right to think so.

People have much worse and less functional ways to deal with depression in real life, and I don't know how you claim not to see what because many are not fortunate enough to live through their depression. And what is depression for depression's sake? It was a storyline dealing with the fallout of legit trauma, of which the previous season was full of. S6 was full of people behaving dysfunctionally anyway, at least Buffy had an immediate reason.

Did she know for certain she could go back? She had previously committed an act of great sacrifice, would it be unreasonable of her to doubt that she could get there next time without something of equal worth? What if she ended up being turned one day and losing her soul?

"Depression for depression's sake" as in they didn't present that storyline to serve the character; they did it for the sake of angst. Bloated, unadulterated angst. This was truly a season where Joss should have been at the helm. Unfortunately, he wasn't.

And Buffy never expressed having a fear of not going back, of not being worthy or of being turned. Her gripe was with existing on the human plane and having to deal with regular life stuff. You can surmise all day, but that's what canon gave us.

Firstly, she was the Slayer, so "regular life stuff" doesn't even mean the same thing other people experience. I think the depression is pretty justified. You live one life, and if you get it right, you go to Heaven. Being pulled out means now you have to do it all over again, which means you literally got cheated out of your previous reward. As if all that you went through meant nothing. That's shitty. The character didn't have to outright say it for us to be able to think, "Man, I wouldn't like to go through that crap again. Who knows if I'll get it right this time?"

That's your opinion, and that's cool. Frankly, compared to her two contemporaries (Kendra and Faith), Buffy had a great life. A childhood for starters, with a mom who loved her and sans abuse.

But we can agree to disagree.

Angel came out okay? News to me, because what I saw was a guy who was so fucked up he had to be chained to a wall. He never recovered, it was only Buffy being there pretty much 24/7 that got him back to maybe halfway functional, and then he couldn't take the knowledge that eventually she was going to die so he scampered off to another city to hide in a hole except when forced to do something by TPTB, and even then he occasionally (read "regularly") went off his rocker. And that was with a support group of friends. Then he got ate by a dragon, the end.

And Angel liked being punished and made to feel bad about himself too.

Edited 2013-12-02 01:19 (UTC)

Yeah, but it lasted what, a couple of weeks? He never recovered? He couldn't take that eventually she would die? Were we watching the same show?

He recovered--fully. And it was Joyce who beseeched him to leave. Good lord. And he wasn't eaten by a dragon...I don't even know how to continue this conversation. I think you're talking about a fanfic and not the series O_o

I don't know if Angel's situation is really comparable to Buffy's here. Even ignoring that he wasn't okay when he first came out (chained to the wall and all), presumably being tortured in hell is worse than being in the human world. He got out of a terrible place into a slightly less terrible one, where he was not actually being actively tortured anymore and had people to talk to and everything. Angel leaving hell was a plus for him. But Buffy got taken out of a place she desperately wanted to be in and sent to what was comparatively a hellscape.

This. I think I'd be pretty jazzed to be out of hell

But in terms of what make sense to be traumatized over...Angel's makes more sense. And hell dimension that turned him into a non-speaking, feral being? I'd say that's way worse than the world he was in as opposed to "slightly less terrible." Angel, for all intents and purposes, should have had some extreme version of PTSD, and not be able to leave his house. But that's not what happened. He ran around half naked for a few weeks, then got better. And he didn't beat up any innocent parties in the process. But I know how the Buffy fandom works--Angel isn't shit. The commenter before yours...I mean, yikes.

And seriously, Buffy knew she had a short shelf life, not just as a human, but as a slayer. It's not like she wasn't ever going to get to go back.

Because it's all a matter of perspective. Angel's trauma could be overcome because from the point it was over, he had nowhere to go but up compared to his previous situation. From where Buffy was standing, it seemed that she was in a downward spiral. You say she was aware of her short shelf life, maybe that was why it seemed she couldn't wait to go back to being dead. Why is it hard to see why it's easier to have hope in one situation and not the other?

Because in theory, he should have been broken beyond repair. But he persevered, and leagues faster than Buffy did (and he didn't need the threat of the end of the world for it to happen).

My point about the shelf life thing--my point was that what the hell was she moping for if it was more than likely going to be over soon anyway? If she had come back, and all, or let's say several slayers had been activated, two of which lived on the Hellmouth, and she had no purpose, all of her health, and would appear to live for decades unless she was in some kind of freak accident, then I could see being depressed at the prospect of a lengthy, shitty existence. As it stands, I thought it was ridiculous.

Well, I have no idea why a situation where all you have to look forward to is a short, miserable existence full of the kind of soul-crushing struggle you were already sick literally to death of, in which you kind of resent all your loved ones but at the same time are constantly aware that you have a responsibility to them, at the end of which you would most likely die a violent death, would lead someone to crippling depression. Especially when this situation is replacing a state of perfect sublime bliss. Why would that happen?

No, she only had a responsibility to Dawn. And it wasn't crippling depression--just enough to make her look like a victim. Well sorry Charlie--I ain't buying.

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[ SECRET POST #2525 ]

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