[ SECRET POST #2530 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2530 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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13. http://i.imgur.com/sXm4j5b.gif
[Doctor Who (gif)]



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14. [SPOILERS for family guy]




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15. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]




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16. [WARNING for abuse]





















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #361.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fauxkaren]

Ugh. No ty.

It was bad enough as it was. Retconning EVERYTHING would have driven me nuts.

I just wish that they'd all pressed the button together and the Doctor realized that he didn't really have to do it alone, but ugh. It felt so cheap to wiggle out of that.

Hard choices? PSH.

NO.

LET'S PUSH THE MAGICAL RESET BUTTON!

[(Anonymous)]

idk, if it had been just that it would have felt like just a rehash of Ten and Donna pushing the button together in the Pompeii episode, which was beautiful and powerful. The reboot Doctor Who has so many 'hard choices' as it is...I love it, but I came for fun adventures in time and space, dammit! I'm okay with an ending that leaves the Doctor happy for once ;_;

[fauxkaren]

But for me, as an audience member, that ending totally cheapens Nine and Ten's entire tenure on the show.

[(Anonymous)]

How? They don't remember it. For all they know they DID destroy their home planet.

[fauxkaren]

Yes, but I know they didn't.

So now when they're angsting about Gallifrey, it's just going to be like "LOLOLOLOL OK, BUDDY."

There was no magically time amnesia to make ME forget about the ending of that special. (If only there was...)

It just feels hollow to me now.

Like the entire story about those two regenerations was about them coming to terms with making a terrible and difficult choice, but in the end, Ten accepts that it was the right things to do. Which is why in the "End of Time" (which, hilariously enough, comes chronologically for Ten, RIGHT AFTER "Day of the Doctor"), when the Time Lords are coming back, Ten is like "OH HELL NO." and sends them back into hell from whence they came.

And then the 50th anniversary is just coming along like "wheee! Retconning the previously established situation of the Time War! It's not longer about two incredibly powerful empires destroying the universe! It's poor innocent Gallifrey with its billions of children being invaded! The Doctor no longer has to make a hard choice and live with the consequences! There's a magical loophole!"

So all that character development seems so pointless now.

And as a viewer, that is incredibly disappointing and frustrating.

[lady_songsmith]

Amen. OTOH, this secret made me think that yeah, retconning it totally might have been more satisfying -- because then Nine and Ten and Eleven are in an AU where they DID destroy Gallifrey, and Capaldi!Doctor is Nine in the universe where they didn't, so it's a clean break that doesn't negate the development for 9/10/11. Hmm. Might have to think on this more.

[ozaline]

Even End of Time makes it clear that that not all Timelords are evil, there were the two members of the council that opposed Rassilon's plans, the Doctor isn't concerned with the High Council or the War council but Children who have never had the chance to have blood on their hands.

Even the General guy mentions the council's plans... So I don't see any contradiction, the time loop works quite nicely in the show and was the first time since the reboot started that I felt anything involving the Time War made a lick of sense. (Plus the Moment was hinted at in End of Time so I think they've been planning this for a while).

Until now the fact that everyone Remembers the Time Lords, but thinks it's impossible they're meeting a time traveler because they are extinct was so beyond asinine that I had to keep hitting myself over the head; it still is but having a logical stable time loop makes me feel a lot better.

And I can sympathize with Nine and Ten's angst because there's a thing called Dramatic Irony, where a characters tragedy is centered around them missing information that the audience has (Romeo and Juliet is all about Dramatic Irony, and stupid teenagers but that's beside the point).

I'm glad that the series didn't end here because it wouldn't be satisfying to leave Galifray lost in time and space.

And I hope we see Romana when Galifray is found again.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I thought the point was they had to live through all that character development to end up in the place and mindset where they saved Gallifrey. If the Doctor didn't live through 400 years of angst over destroying his homeworld, then he wouldn't have done all the thinking and working out on how to save it... and Gallifrey would be destroyed anyway.

Or maybe I am just an easy-going fan who didn't mind the retcon.

[(Anonymous)]

I've found being an easy-going fan is a lot more enjoyable than taking things too seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm getting this printed on a t-shirt, jsyk...

[ozaline]

Yeah, totally this. I agree 100%

[(Anonymous)]

I also thought that was the point of it! And it doesn't cheapen the earlier seasons for me, it gives them meaning. I was getting sick of the ceaseless angst, but now I can watch it comfortably, and sympathize but also think "It will all work out for the best."

and can I say I was so happy about the Doctor admitting he lies about his age? This "I'm 904!" stuff had made me side-eye him so hard as a classic Who watcher, lol. "Suuuuure you are, Doctor. And you never lose track of time, or spend a decade wandering the galaxy in search of the perfect teaspoon"

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

Yes, well, as someone who read a number of the novels during the 90s, I always thought his constant "900 years!" thing in the new series was a little bit off too, considering that was the last age in old!Who he also claimed to be. I know the books are not official canon, but even so, the gulf between Seven and Nine should have put him over 1000 at least, but he didn't count himself as such until Eleven.

[othellia]

I agree, but at the same time I think it will be interesting where they take it. And if/when they did come back, their return was an ambiguously grey thing with goods and bads. Don't think Moffat will go down that route, but maybe someone else down the line.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm headcanoning that what we saw on telly was the timelines before they were changed, so it's in a different strand of time from what happened now. So the End of Time would have happened a bit differently, and so did a lot of things, to avoid a paradox and let Eleven stay the way he was (and not wink out of existence or w/e) even though things were changed about his past self/selves.

Or else, the standby for Moffat episodes:

Don't think
Think and you're dead

[(Anonymous)]

I had always thought that when a Time Lord meets himself, there's a sort of fail-safe involved that blocks the memory until he 'catches up' to the latest version. That's why in all the episodes with multiple Doctors, the later incarnations hadn't been sitting around waiting for D-Day to come, but instead spend the whole multi-Doctor adventure with what is essentially powerful deja vu.