fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2532 ]

[ SECRET POST #2532 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2532 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #362.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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American SJWs consider light-skinned minorities to be white, FYI. Including Jewish people. And, iirc, Spanish people. And Ricardo Montalban. No, I don't know why, either.

If we're gonna talk in terms of the "white" social construct, Jews are isually considered part of that these days, at least in America. (There's a pretty famous book, How Jews Became White Folks and What That Says About Race in America.) However, being called "white" doesn't mean you're not a minority member, as plenty of pale-skinned gay folks can tell you. Jews are still subject to prejudice, so positive presentations of them are still to be commended.

I don't know whether the Sami are white--since whiteness is a social construct, it depends on how they're treated in their homeland. But it's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread that they've been enslaved in the past, so they're a minority whether they're white or not.

What? I'm not American (not even the same hemisphere)and I consider some light-skinned minorities to be white. I mean, because they are. Factually. Why in God's name wouldn't they be white? Being white and being an oppressed minority are not mutually exclusive.

China has a bunch of ethnic minorities who are oppressed by Han Chinese. Should we start claiming those minorities aren't Asian because their oppressors are also Asian?

I just do not understand your logic here.

DA but:

The logic behind this argument is that if you're white (or passing as white even though you're a paler POC), you're automatically priviledged and can't possible be discriminated against. Needless to say that that's stupid but that's how they are. The number of times they falsely attack POC for "cultural appropriation" because they're not brown enough is quite interesting.

ugh, ok yeah I can't stand when people do that. The SJW community is so full of ridiculous generalisations like that when in reality what it means to be "white" or a "POC" can vary greatly from country to country or even region to region.

It's not just ignoring the grey areas, it's loudly denying that any kind of grey area exists. Fuck things like context, intent, and individual circumstances.

In related news, I know someone (an American) didn't believe that the British/Irish debacle could possibly be racially motivated because "they're both white". White isn't a race, it's a colour. Being a certain colour doesn't excempt you from being a minority, even if certain colours are less likely to be minorities.

God, that is stupid. Why didn't they give Irish people the benefit of the doubt here? Or do some fucking research?

My mum moved from Ireland when she was 12 to England in the 1950s, broke family seeking survival, and got such shame job for it she eradicated all traces of her accent or anything Irish about her at all. Irish people, I guess, as white people, can always completely assimilate especially in Australia where she then moved to, where people didn't look too hard at your ancestry so much as the colour of your skin.

* She came over to Australia as part of the White Australia Policy basically trucking people out, so being a white "minority" can have white privilege benefits, depending. The WAP earlier in the century didn't have enough desirable whites who were desperate and poor enough to come all that way, so Australia trucked some "Beautiful Balts" in - Eastern European people who were looked down upon for not being English, but at least they were white (and selected one by one for their desirable physical features UGH). They were given new less "foreign" surnames, generally. Australia has largely deliberately forgotten this. I certainly didn't learn about it at school.

Southern Europeans were the next wave of immigrants and received a lot of racist shit in Australia, until a) started to assimilate, and b) less white immigrants came along that made Southern Europeans look a lot more white by comparison.

(Kinda relevant to the topic. Whiteness in the West is a really complex concept.)

I think that's the thing "white" for americans is not only a skin tone, it has a whole lot of baggage of privilege and whatnot.

And in their context is kind of a fair correlation, but they don't understand they can't use the same rationales regardless of context.

Like, they don't know shit about minorities in europe most of the time, and they can't understand how a group that they see as "white" (according to their deffinition) can be opressed.

I remember this post about "bending it like backham", where Rhys Mayer's character tells Nagra's that he understands what she goes through, about being discriminated, and SJW were foaming in the mout of how a "white guy" could even DARE to compare his experiencies witha a WoC, without even considering the racial and national dynamics between Catolic Irish and Protestant British; they just saw WHITE MEN TEARS.

Uh, yeah? You can be an ethnic minority and still have passing privilege here in the States where racists are often more concerned with how brown you physically are than where you're actually from. I've heard from some Europeans that our obsession with skin tone is pretty weird to them, but it does exist.

"I've heard from some Europeans that our obsession with skin tone is pretty weird to them, but it does exist."

Oh, you have no idea how much! Because your obsession with race just sounds like racial ideology (like you know that thing Hitler pormoted) to us. The only people in Europe caring so much about race and skin-tones are Nazis or Neo-Nazis.

I thought the Ricardo Montalban issue was split right down the middle.

Yeah, some people were screaming that he was totally not white because he was Mexican, even though Mexican in a nationality and there are pale-skinned/blonde/blue-eyed Mexicans.

Also, Hispanics are classified as "white" in the US.

Also, Hispanics are classified as "white" in the US.

I think it's more of a Venn diagram; some Latinos are considered "white," and others aren't. (Which honestly just goes to show that race is a societally determined thing with scarcely a nodding acquaintance with any sort of biological heredity.)

It depends on who's doing the classifying. A lot of governmental forms (like the census) keep "Hispanic" as a separate indicator, ie, you can check off "white" and "hispanic" or "black" and "hispanic".

but... spanish people ARE white, unless my ancestry is somehow a lie.

It depends on the Spanish person. Moorish Spaniards weren't white and their descendants probably aren't either, but going by some social justice types on Tumblr and LJ all Spanish people are white with no room for Moorish Spanish in there at all.

This, pretty much. People are surprised that my mother is from Spain Spain and not South or Central America, but that side of my family is descended from the Moors with some Rromani mixed in and we are very obviously brown. However, that's a minority in Spain. It's pretty safe to say that about 90 percent of the Spanish people are white, although there are oppressed white ethnic minorities in Spain like the Basque and Catalan people.

As a Catalan person, let me tell you that you are full of shit. We aren't oppressed. At all. We are one of the richest most privileges regions of Spain.

LOL, I'm also Catalan and you can go stuff yourself.

Learn what opression is (and no, it is not "Madrit ens roba"), it's pretty disrespectful to people who are truly oppressed and are being murdered, impoverished and isolated.

Assumptions aren't cute.

The Catalans were repressed under Franco, no? I thought he tried to eliminate that dialect.

Catalan isn't a dialect, it's a separate language entirely. But yes, Franco's regime tried to stamp out the use of the language, people were exiled, shot, condemned or "disappeared". I still have living family members who were alive during those times and to tell them they weren't "oppressed" is to spit in the face of history.

Obviously things are a lot better today, but as I've traveled a lot of Spain outside Catalunya and people were terrible to me for two distinct reasons: a) being brown (especially when I was still wearing a hijab) and b) speaking Catalan. To say that there's not a virulent anti-Catalan strain of thought in Spain to this day that is tacitly encouraged is very disingenuous.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-12-10 20:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

liberatores - 2013-12-11 04:33 (UTC) - Expand

It depends on what the nature of your Spanish descent is, as well as where the discrimination (or lack thereof) is happening, i.e. "Spanish" in European parlance tends to just mean someone from Spain, but "Spanish" in America tend to get lumped in with Latinos, in which case the white/not-white issue is a separate can of worms entirely.

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