fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2541 ]

[ SECRET POST #2541 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2541 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I think it's possible to be disappointed that Disney added two more white princesses to the line-up while still acknowledging that this movie did an excellent job when it comes to female representation. And I think it's possible to acknowledge that it's quite a feminist movie without telling the people who want to see more princesses with darker skin to shut up and stop complaining. I wish I could see more of both.

Me too. :) I adored this movie and agree with OP that it was probably the most feminist thing Disney's done yet, but as with everything, there is always, always room for critique and for more inclusiveness.

That's the thing, though. People who refuse to accept that Sami aren't 'European Native Americans' won't ever see the positives of the movie. I've tried bringing up the positive female aspects of the movie, and have been shot down every time or just plain ignored.

Shocking truth: some people take more offense to some things than others.

Sami aren't PoC, though. They are light skinned and have been for hundreds of years. Being butthurt about a slight that never actually happened is beyond stupid, especially since the movie hits the other things tumblr likes to rant about. There is honestly nothing about Kristoff that says he's not Sami, either.

It's the same thing with the tumblr Sleepy Hollow fandom. "Ugh, women need to rise up and tell men to go fuck themselves! Girl power! Sexism is bullshit! Fuck misogyny! Oh, but Katarina is an evil dirty slut because she's married to that hot guy we want to be with someone else! Compared to Abbie she is the scum of the earth. OMG, why can't the hot white, cisgendered, straight man see how shitty that sluttyslut is!"

Oh tumblr, hypocrisy is thy name.

Some people take offense where there is nothing there.

Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

Yeah, the whole Sami thing is a mess and a lot of people are being ridiculous about that. But I think it's always okay to complain that you aren't seeing yourself represented in media as much as you should be. So I've spent a lot of time shaking my head at lots of different sides of this argument.

The sad thing is, is that Disney probably won't take a risk since PatF didn't do as well as they hoped. The other PoC movie they're making, King of the Elves, has been in production hell for years now. I'm talking since 2008. I think there was mention of it being back in production, but I don't know for sure.

What about the movie about the Polynesian princess?

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(Anonymous) - 2013-12-18 00:49 (UTC) - Expand

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miku_hatsune - 2013-12-19 16:49 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-12-18 00:54 (UTC) - Expand

Here's the thing: I'm not sure the international market wants more nonwhite princesses from Disney because they have their own media. Disney is western and they want western stuff. That and, frankly, a lot of the world is even more racist than the US. This includes countries of color.

That and expecting full representation from one of the most conservative media franchises on earth is a losing game. It's fucking princesses, why are you going there looking for progress? It's like me hoping Jeff Dunham is going to add puppets that aren't racist! It's like hoping One Direction writes a song about Gloria Stinem!

Edited 2013-12-18 00:59 (UTC)

I know it's hopeless but I can dream okay! :p I just really want a lesbian Disney princess. People telling me to stop wanting it isn't going to do anything. I'm not going to tell anyone else to stop dreaming about what they want from an incredibly influential company even if it's not realistic.

It's one thing to dream, it's another thing entirely to believe it will happen with enough pressure and complaining. (Not referring to you, just about the Disney wankers on tumblr as of late)

I'd love for Disney to make another original 2D animated film that wasn't Phin and Ferb or Winnie the Pooh, but I know it'll never happen. I don't think I'll ever like CGI as much as hand drawn, personally...

Fair enough. I just don't really care if this is the hill they want to die on.

I agree with you about 2D animation. I miss it.

same

3D can be beautiful but I really miss some of the more 2D-ish aesthetics

If it makes you feel any better, there are already people attempting (and imo succeeding at) queer readings of Elsa's character. The whole "we're doing this for your own good" way her parents taught her to hide who she was so she didn't hurt others, how she became a bit sexier once she found out she was free, how her whole arc is about how she has internalized the lack of acceptance stands up to the usual queer allegories, and how she's accepted in the end not only by her sister but by her community are all very progressive queer themes. I mean, I'd prefer a princess who was outright queer, but it is a really neat read on the character.

Interesting. I agree that an explicitly queer princess would be better but I do enjoy queer headcanons.

That's an intriguing read on her character. It makes sense to me.

When I saw it, I saw it as anxiety disorder. The way she would chant to herself not to feel it, it reminded me of how I try to talk myself out of a panic attack.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-12-18 06:26 (UTC) - Expand

An outright lesbian princess, with no subtext or "she could be?" or anything, would be wonderful. I can see it happening, too. Disney always seemed pretty pro-LGBT, as far as big corporations go.

Someday My Lesbian Will Come plays wistfully in the background

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-12-19 06:55 (UTC) - Expand

Uh There are lots of westerns who aren't white.

*westerners

Well yeah, but Disney is catering to an international audience, not just people in the US.

Don't go to a multinational corporation for progress in media. Progress doesn't make them money until everyone else has progressed enough to want to buy it.

Edited 2013-12-18 06:08 (UTC)

This. Basically, the only ones hankering Disney about PoCs are white countries with PoCs. And even then it's not always true.

This; I absolutely adored Frozen and thought it was absolutely wonderful, but I'd love more diversity in the Disney princess line-up.

I feel like personally I'm not blaming Frozen but kind of holding it separate. I'm glad that Frozen exists because I thought it was fantastic on both a filmmaking level and on a feminist level, but I wish that there was more diversity. I think when you view it like "if Frozen wasn't there we'd have a movie about a POC princess!" is when people get angry.

this is a good view

also, if films like Frozen have massive success "despite" having female leads, that is one more incentive for Disney to try to venture out of its comfort zone

I think this is a case of you just can't please everyone. Upon hearing the news that Disney wants to do another story with a Polynesian princess, all my Hawaiian friends on FB were up in arms about Disney "appropriating their story." So they presumably would actually be happier if Disney stuck with white characters.

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