fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2543 ]

[ SECRET POST #2543 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2543 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Fangirl]

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02.

[Anne Neville, The White Queen]

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03.

[Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan]

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04.

[Merlin]

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05.

[Elementary]

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06.

[Whitechapel]

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07.

[Grey's Anatomy]

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08.

(Legend of Korra)

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09.

[Papa Pear Saga + Doctor Who]

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10.

[Godfrey Gao as Magnus Bane in "The Mortal Instruments: City of Bones"]

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11.

[Kwon Yuri, Tiffany Hwang and Jessica Jung of Girls' Generation]

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12.

[Les Miserables/Anton Zetterholm/Rob Houchen]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01pages, 015 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Well I think the problem with queerbaiting isn't just showrunners teasing the possibility of same-sex attraction, it's showrunners teasing the possibility while at the same time covering their asses with "my word no homo totally straight JUST FRIENDS" bullshit and thus trying to have it both ways.

So, for me queerbaiting is less about the strength/intimacy of the same sex friendship and how characters react to it. Like, on Person of Interest, John and Harold are super close, would die for each other, take care of a baby together, have adopted a dog (that they take to the movies on slow days), etc, etc, but it never feels like queerbaiting to me because 1) no other characters have been like "hur hur, you guys are gay, right?" and 2) neither John nor Harold seem to think anything about their relationship is particularly weird or that they have to explain it in that weird, posturing, no-homo way some other shows get. So yeah, people ship it (I do) but in show I fully buy it as just a strong friendship that's being portrayed and am comfortable with it staying that way.

Something like Sherlock, though, where John and Sherlock get mistaken for a couple several times, where Irene throws out the "love" word about them, and yet where John REPEATEDLY says he's not gay and Moffat is like "Sherlock lives with a man because he's not attracted to men and thus won't be distracted by one" (which, what even?)...that becomes queerbaiting. The, y'know, bait and switch aspect.

Anne and Leslie from Parks and Recreation is an interesting case for me, because it does have elements of queerbaiting (close friendship, people have mistaken them for a lesbian couple, they've each respectively denied it), but it doesn't feel as gross to me as when Sherlock does it. I think the main reason is that Leslie's line on it is something like "Unfortunately no, we are both heterosexual", like she's almost disappointed she's not attracted to beautiful nurse Anne. IDK, it's more respectful.

Another current one is Almost Human, which is basically a textbook set up for queerbaiting in the two male characters who are partners and spend all of their time with each other (but also there's a pretty lady so it doesn't seem TOO gay). And idk the writers keep throwing out all sorts of stuff (like, Dorian shows John his dick after John expresses interest as to him having one. I mean, that's a thing that happens), but then the very next scene they push John straight at the pretty lady detective because OBVIOUSLY the gay relationship WOULD NOT HAPPEN, I MEAN MY WORD NO.

So idk, how do you depict a strong same sex relationship without getting dogpiled for its unrealized potential? Don't dangle that potential out there really obviously only to snatch it back while screaming "NO HOMO".

...but what if a show portrays a strong friendship with what could be read as "potential", but, when the creators are asked as to the nature of the heroes' relationship, their answer is "this is a straight friendship"? Or else, what if the characters themselves are asked about this in a non-"hur hur" way and explicitly state that there is no romance going on?

DA

The fannits don't care about reality, they're just concentrated on their precious slash. Honestly, they're just as bad as guys watching lesbian porn, IMO. What's worse is that most of these girls are teenagers, so how is this going to adversely affect them when they get older, is my question.

Wow, you're just a regular check list aren't you? Insulting fans you don't like with a 'cute' little name. Comparing apples to oranges. Ignoring LGBT fans. And concern trolling.

DA

They have a different opinion than you. Get over it.

Well, that's pretty much what I see going on in Parks and Rec: Leslie and Anne are super close, love each other very much, get mistaken for a lesbian couple maybe three times that I recall, each in very logical situations: once when Leslie mostly seems really happy that Anne was considered her trophy wife (given that they went to a party together), once at a fertility clinic when she was there for moral support, and once by a douchey radio host who was pissed Anne ditched him to go and have a fight with Leslie in the bathroom. All three of those times, there's never that immediate, panicked push to assert herself as not gay, just a matter of fact statement (of regret, even) and moving on. And I don't remember ever seeing it called queerbaiting. I mean, I get that the Leslie/Anne situation is less contentious because it is a female/female relationship, and fandom tends to get a little more touchy about m/m stuff and ignore f/f.

But again, in Person of Interest, it is a m/m friendship, with equal if not greater canonical closeness and unhealthy interdependence as John/Sherlock, and I don't think there's EVER been a "Hmm, but you guys are gay, right?" in-show tease, not once in its two year, sixty episode run, and no shipper actually argues that they should be together on the show or else the showrunners are wasting canon potential. (Okay, I probably shouldn't say no shipper, because I don't know EVERYONE in the fandom, but: I have never seen a John/Harold shipper reach the levels of vitriol toward the show for not going there/the non-shippers/the canon love interests that some Johnlock fans hit every day). It just doesn't happen.

I mean, for me the greatest indicator of queerbaiting always ends up being the fandom: when the trend is fans who feel crazy entitled to seeing the relationship happen in canon, it's usually because they have been given serious hints that it "could" be canon, for the given meaning of could. I think certain shows get recommended that way and tend to pick up that kind of fan, or by reputation they hear about a really obvious couple and start watching for it, as with Sterek and Destiel.

(Though, Sterek's weird, because so much of it is from the showrunners and not the show: there basically isn't any canon friendship/closeness to take advantage of, there, so you get the writers hinting at Stiles's bisexuality at most and the actors playing it up, which I think makes Sterek shippers feel even more entitled to it in canon. Which is only a bad thing if the writers don't intend to go there, and at this point, I'm not even sure if they will, or if I'd want them to.)

Like, I don't know, I think there are plenty of shows that have strong, same-sex friendships that don't get accusations of queerbaiting, or at least not at the level of, as you say, dogpiling (c.f: Scrubs, Parks and Rec, Psych, POI). But I think when there is the bait and switch aspect, dogpiling happens because those kind of teases make people think that showrunners are willing to go there, and then it's disappointing when it turns out they're not, and/or have been using the idea as a punchline.

Now you see, I don't get that vibe from Almost Human because a large chunk of that banter reads like badly written heterosexist machismo. Even that scene (prompted by Kennex's shock that MX models have a "Ken Doll" crotch) ends with Dorian taunting that Kennex isn't sexually active either.

I actually kind of agree with you about Almost Human, now that I think about it: like for the most part, despite the set up being so rife with the possibility of top-level queer-baiting, John and Dorian still aren't really slashy in the way I kind of expected them to be. Like, the parts are there, but in execution doesn't come out that way. They don't seem to like each other much, and while there is some chemistry, it still doesn't quite get there. Like the writers had a plan to get that kind of iconic buddy relationship which we've just come to associate so strongly with slashy overtones, but there are just no slashy overtones. I definitely feel like the scene I mentioned could have been very, very gay, but the actors didn't play it that way. So maybe Almost Human has cracked the code w/r/t buddy cop relationships that are close but not fanbait.

(But I still feel pretty sure Pretty Lady Cop's only there to be in a relationship with John lest people worry he's gay. Like, I think the actress is fine and adorable, but just...not that well developed as an endgame love interest. She likes soccer? And bourbon? And is a good cop? Well done, feels like I've known her forever).

It doesn't help matters much that one of the people in the car is nearly an expressionless robot demonstrating a limited range of emotional affect...

...and the other is Dorian.

Heh, true. But that's legitimately my favorite part of the show, that the actual robot is better at humaning than the human.

I mean, that, and the implication that everything that's bad now (police brutality, healthcare, corruption) are like 300x worse and everyone's just accepted it. Like, it doesn't even get a dystopia wash, who even knows with Almost Human.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2543 ]

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?

Re: Friendship or queerbaiting?