[ SECRET POST #2546 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2546 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[dreemyweird]

Nope, OP. Sorry, but shipping has nothing to do with "getting the point" or "not getting" it. In itself, shipping any particular pairing says nothing of one's attitudes, nor of their stance. Just as you can't be homophobic because you ship Watson/Mary over Holmes/Watson (leaving aside those who ship both), you can't "ignore and trash" the idea of non-romantic love by shipping those who embody it. They are just characters. They are not the idea itself.

(this being said, I know the feeling. I do so hate seeing Joanlock stuff. Can't help being irritated a little)

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree. And I haven't seen the movie, but wouldn't you think it's a bit of a different situation if a movie or book or whatever had the specific message that OP is talking about. About two people being in love and how the entire message is saying it's equally as important as romantic love, and that a relationship doesn't need romance or sex to be valued. I mean yeah, ship what you ship, but it does seem like that would be missing the point a bit.

[dreemyweird]

I see how it would be possible to miss a point by shipping something (though certainly not "trash the idea" or be socially harmful in any other way), but it would definitely involve shipping it inside the canon!verse (as in, reading the canon as a romance and/or disregarding its main message). Because for fanon shippers, reading/writing love stories and squeeing over the epic canon friendship aren't mutually exclusive activities.

[sarillia]

I do think there can be some correlation between your attitudes toward different kinds of relationships and what you ship so I get annoyed when people shout "this means nothing!" and seem to be going too far in the other direction, but I do agree with the main point that it's not definitive proof. I'm just saying that if you never ever ship same-sex pairings and your reasoning for it is that those pairings are gross to you, then that probably does mean something. I'm definitely not arguing that someone who generally prefers het over slash is homophobic just for that though.

I don't know I'm just thinking about all the different annoying posts I've seen about this and rambling.

[dreemyweird]

Yeah, I agree with this. It can be an indicator, given other telltale signs. (some Johnlock shippers being a sad example)

[(Anonymous)]

To some extent I agree, but you have to factor in the fact that shipping doesn't always equal what someone is okay with or agrees with in real life on top of what you mentioned.

Personally, I'm a little more sick of the "If you don't ship X, you're Y!" - but that might be because I've seen that happen in a fandom that was very quick to do that about certain het ships.

[sarillia]

I don't like "if you don't ship x, you're y" but I also have never actually seen someone say that unironically so I'm just basing that on the complaints I've heard.

I am sometimes a little suspicious of those complaints though. I've seen a reasonable post about how female characters tend to be held to higher standards than male ones (both due to sexism and as a result of some kinds of feminism) so a lot of people will like very similar male characters but not the female ones. These posts will often acknowledge that there are valid reasons to dislike these characters and they are not saying that every person who doesn't like them is sexist. This gets interpreted by some overly defensive people as "if you don't like this particular character I happened to mention then you are a terrible sexist and I hate you!". I realize that there are also people who say that too, so to some extent I understand the people who read it that way, but it annoys me that it's so hard to talk about the high standards placed on female characters because of the people simplifying the issue and the people being too defensive in response.

That's just one example too. It happens with discussions of how homophobia affects the way people respond to gay people, etc.

tl;dr: "if you don't ship x, you're y!" does happen (and other related arguments like the example I used before), but I've also seen things that only have a passing resemblance to that get dismissed as that

Sorry for rambling on about this. I find it an interesting subject.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Oh no, it's all good - and you're right there are times when that is the case [people claiming that valid, reasonable posts are over-defensive.]

The situation I was talking about was people actively claiming that in response to people not liking a female character who openly abused the one of the two people she's shipped with, and said character is obviously worried enough about it that just the threat of abuse from her makes him react strongly in a way that's obviously scared of her. That turned a lot of people off the ship, and a character as a whole because...well. Abuse. Plus that abusive trait was something that tended to get played up about the character in fandom works, albeit as a joke. But a ton of people loved the character and ship [and, in fairness, the character was an otherwise fun character] and bunch of those people started claiming/attacking anyone who admitted to not shipping it as sexist even though the majority of people's reasoning was related to the abuse.

Now, while I'm sure some people didn't like because of sexist reasoning, the fact the first response for a lot of people was "You're sexist!" was...not okay, and I've seen the same thing to varying degrees in other fandoms - though those times are usually on tumblr*, so I tend to take it with a grain of salt.

*Original fandom I mentioned was all on livejournal at the time

[(Anonymous)]

What fandom and character was this?

[sarillia]

That does sound frustrating.