[ SECRET POST #2546 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2546 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[pantswarrior]

Speaking of K/S, I really, really hate it when people try to "defend against" Spock/McCoy by demonizing McCoy's interactions with Spock (or demonizing the other half of any alt pairing, lookin' at you Uhura). I have encountered people who claimed Bones is a genuine racist who hates Vulcans and he and Spock loathe each other, and I'm like... DUDE. WHAT SHOW DID YOU WATCH.

And basically anyone who claims their non-canon ship is SECRETLY canon because they left this hint and that hint - or anyone who just assumes that everyone ships this one ship because it's just so totally obvious, who wouldn't ship it? :P

One of my old fandoms used to completely ignore the game's chronology so they could pair up two characters who literally met once and knew each other for about 48 hours before one of them died, and ... okay fine, AUs are valid and so on, but it completely ruins the entire point of the game if that character just lives and runs off to be domestic with the surviving character. :P

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[intrigueing]

Ugh, that pre-emptive "defending against." Do people not understand the concept of friendship that isn't a prelude to romance, or do they really think that having a friend you like who isn't your boyfriend diminishes your True Love? Because I worry about what those people are gonna do with relationships IRL.

I've also seen it with people going "oh lol, Kirk and Gary Mitchell were never really friends/Gary Mitchell was an abusive lover/Gary Mitchell was evil all along instead of getting corrupted/Kirk didn't even like him because he was always a douchebag/blah blah blah." And it's like...they're not even canon, what are you defending against?

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[(Anonymous)]

Do people not understand the concept of friendship that isn't a prelude to romance, or do they really think that having a friend you like who isn't your boyfriend diminishes your True Love? Because I worry about what those people are gonna do with relationships IRL.

I don't think people are capable of having friendship relationships IRL anymore, largely due in part to this hot mess fandom has become thanks to the Internet. Which has bled over into society IMO, which is not a good thing.

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're probably overestimating the size and influence of fandom- and underestimating the degree to which those trends were already present in mainstream society.

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[pantswarrior]

Ohoho the Gary Mitchell stuff. I can almost sort of understand PARTS of that, because Gary WAS a douchebag and fairly problematic by today's standards, and you'd want to distance your favored character from that sort of thing. But you know what? KIRK WAS JUST AS BAD IN TOS. It only really makes sense that they'd have been friends. :P And as you said, it's not like you even need to go "THEY AREN'T A COUPLE" when, uh, they're not supposed to be in the first place. The way both of them were presented in the single appearance they had together was... two very openly and energetically heterosexual bros, basically. :P

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[intrigueing]

because Gary WAS a douchebag and fairly problematic by today's standards, and you'd want to distance your favored character from that sort of thing. But you know what? KIRK WAS JUST AS BAD IN TOS.

OK...sorry? You lost me on this. I mean, apart from various facepalmy '60s sensibilities moments scattered throughout the show, I don't recall anything of this sort. Could you be more specific?

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[pantswarrior]

I mean, apart from various facepalmy '60s sensibilities moments scattered throughout the show

That's exactly it. Gary was "a douchebag" because he exhibited the facepalmy '60s sensibilities, particularly towards women, in every appearance... which was exactly one episode. Kirk had more of those moments than Gary, if you go by sheer volume, but you got to see more facets of Kirk because he was in every episode and had the benefit of better character development, so the same people who complain about Gary don't often complain about the fact that Kirk exhibited the same behavior upon occasion.

Of course, those who do so are judging the characters without taking into account that they were conceived in a different cultural environment than we live in now. I tend not to, but I totally see why people would get the impression that Gary is a douchebag, if you just take him at face value without context. Likewise, Kirk has his moments. I have commented in the past that I'm sure they intended for Kirk to come off like the hero of a romance novel, but by today's standards he winds up seeming either laughable or sketchy in some scenes that were no doubt intended as romantic.

...I hope this is making more sense? Basically it boils down to, I don't think Gary was intended to be "bad", just sort of rogueish, much like Kirk, and that behavior comes off differently nowadays - and for some reason fans seem to overlook it in Kirk when complaining about it in Gary.

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[intrigueing]

Ah I understand! I think I just misread the "by today's standards" in your original post :)

Honestly though, I tend to see more people (not just in Trek fandom, but any relevant fandom) going "nooo that stuff is all totes okay because it was made in/it's set in a different time period!!" than the reverse, so I didn't really think about this point.

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[pantswarrior]

Heheh, it probably depends where you go. I have seen some real rage over certain facets of TOS, and I agree with some of it (like, wtf at the entire premise of Turnabout Intruder) but am largely willing to overlook it because, you know, context. And they WERE being progressive for their time, just not always being as successful at it as what passes for the non-progressive norm nowadays.

But then there are the people who go "omg so progressive" and try to rationalize the bits of fail, to contrast with the people who just rage over the fail and ignore the stuff that was done right. I've seen all types in Trek fandom... which is really the only fandom I'm in where you get that sort of thing, since most of my fandoms are video games and therefore can't possibly be older than a couple of decades at most, and are frequently Japanese - though we get the same type of contradictory takeaways sometimes with the cultural differences there. ;)

Re: Annoying shipper attitudes?

[sarillia]

I think about your first paragraph too. It seems like people think that all friends have the potential to graduate to a romantic relationship and then it will be infinitely stronger and more meaningful. It's disturbing.