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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2013-12-22 03:41 pm
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[ SECRET POST #2546 ]


⌈ Secret Post #2546 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #363.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2013-12-22 11:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I'll just take a Harper Hall movie. Or proper trilogy. I don't remember enough about the other stories to care*, but Dragonsong was my introduction to the fantasy genre, and I've read it a dozen times. It's one of my favorite stories ever. Fire lizards on the big screen please.

*I don't remember Lessa being terrible or rape scenes?? 11-year-old me was pretty oblivious though.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
It wasn't so much what people tend to think of as "traditional" rape, but when dragons mate, so do their riders, whether they otherwise want to or not.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
F'nor and Brekke's first time was also pretty rapey too IIRC.
littlestbirds: (Default)

[personal profile] littlestbirds 2013-12-23 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
Oh god this. I tried to reread the series and that was when I gave up.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 05:44 am (UTC)(link)
It's been so long since I've read any of the Pern books. Is that the one where it's kind of presented as "It's for her own good. She'll be calmer and cool with it later. She just doesn't realize she wants to say yes" or am I confusing them with another couple? (I'm pretty sure there was at least one that went that way.)

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 06:13 am (UTC)(link)
Yep, that was Brekke and F'nor. She fights him and the narration literally says "he wasn't gentle but he was thorough" and of course he had to have sex with her because she was a virgin and being a virgin when your queen rises is bad or something.

...it's kind of a pattern with McCaffrey, actually. The women who aren't virgins before they meet their ~true love~ are either villains or rape survivors. Everyone else is a virgin, except for maybe Sallah Telgar who comes with her own "drug the guy with aphrodisiacs whilst hours away from anyone else" issues.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 01:21 am (UTC)(link)
But with the telepathic links to their dragons, don't the riders want to just as much? Yes, even the male green riders.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 06:14 am (UTC)(link)
The riders have the physical need but not the emotional want, if that makes sense? It's still rape if they don't want it but their body does.
ketita: (Default)

[personal profile] ketita 2013-12-23 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
I think there was a vague sense of mitigation by the hint that usually the dragon would only ultimately mate with a dragon whose rider their rider could tolerate.
If the concept were tweaked a little, I think the general rapey-ness could be mitigated. And iirc with some of the other dragons there were pairs that had been together for years, because other dragons wouldn't seriously compete because they knew the pair was already solid (riders and dragons both).

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 09:28 am (UTC)(link)
Except when Tai was introduced, she'd never wanted any of the riders whose dragons caught hers, and considered all of the times her dragon had risen to be rape. She has a pretty obvious panic reaction when she realises her green's about to rise again and there's no way to get away from the bronzerider with her.

In some cases, especially the pairs whose dragons and riders both were okay with the arrangement, it's less awkward, but there's definitely cases in canon where it's pretty clear the rider had no choice in the matter.
ketita: (Default)

[personal profile] ketita 2013-12-23 09:41 am (UTC)(link)
No, you're definitely right, and I said in my first comment that one of the things I'd edit in terms of story is the rape-aspects of dragon mating.
Though, on the flipside, it could be presented as a legitimately negative part of being a dragonrider and an issue to deal with - essentially it's a kind of sex pollen effect, and you have this dichotomy between loving their dragon but hating this aspect of life. I mean, of course it would be difficult to deal with it sensitively, but I personally like when fantasy worlds are shown with their own complications and drawbacks.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 09:35 am (UTC)(link)
Nope, there's traditional rape in there. F'lar even admits it.

"He had been a considerate and gentle bedmate ever since, but, unless Ramoth and Mnemneth were involved, he might as well call it rape. Yet he knew someday, somehow, that he would coax her into responding wholeheartedly to his lovemaking."

barf.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 10:54 am (UTC)(link)
Fair enough; it's been a long time since I've read them. I didn't remember that.

(Anonymous) 2013-12-23 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)
It's been a while for me too too, but that line always struck out to me because I'd read the Harper Hall triology before and then Dragonsdawn which were all pretty cool and then I got to Dragonflight and just wondered what the fuck was going on.
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