fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2556 ]

[ SECRET POST #2556 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2556 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

...but are supposed to be a good guy and are for the most part a good guy apart from some details, a) are they really a douche, and b) do you care if they're written non-douchily in fanfic? Can characters who fall prey to bad writing, but who are not ALWAYS written badly, be "reclaimed"?

Yes, sort of inspired by the Sherlock secret, but I can think of a lot of examples of this, from really old books written under different eras with outdated sensibilities, to stuff like crappy writers in a multi-writer 'verse, like Chuck Austen or Mark Millar in superhero comics, or particular writers of various TV shows.

That's why I read fic, because fanworks fix a lot of the problems I see in my shows. Like really shitty writing of heroes, so shitty that you know they're supposed to be the hero but it's so poorly done that you start to hate on them and their shitty non-heroic choices.

I like to "reclaim" those characters. That's one of the joys of fanfic, fixing whatever problems you have with the original. Of course you open yourself up to criticisms of OOC-ness but that's a risk you'll have to take.

I feel like this about Will in Glee. Like, if you read his character description, or hear how the other characters describe him ("He's a great guy! He really cares about his students! He works so hard for us" etc etc) he's someone I really like...but as is typical for Glee, they tend to make him actually ACT douchey for easy drama or the cheap joke. So I only read fic where he is legit a great guy and don't consider that fic OOC: but then I don't consider fic where he's a douche OOC, because that's how he is on the show most of the time.

Not fic, but I am really really tired of Keith Giffen writing Guy Gardner the same way he did in the 80s. Character development is a thing, Keith.

This was the case for me with Gwen from Torchwood. The writers intended her to be this super nice, sympathetic and kind character, but the way they wrote her I hated her in pretty much every scene she was in.

In fic I didn't really care if the author pointed out her hypocrisy and flaws or wrote her the way she was intended, as long as they just stuck with it. If she was written as in the show (character flawed but narrative tried to convince me that she wasn't) it was instant hate from me.

It depends for me I think.

I think typically the kind of asshole character I prefer is the one that is supposed to be a dick, the narrative doesn't support them in being right and they get called out on their shit. But I've probably got some 'asshole characters that are written as good guys but are actually huge dickbags' that I like too.

I'd really, really dislike them. I cannot stand asshole characters that are clearly meant to be a good guy, are written as a good guy, characters treat them as a good guy then they do something I see as douchey but no one acts like it's douchey. Drives me up the wall tbqh.

I wouldn't be able to comment on the Sherlock secret, but I think there's even a trope for this?

I understand disliking the "consistently douchey but never called on it" type. But how about when it only happens like, once or twice though? Like, they did that a douchey thing in that one crappy episode, and no one acted like it was douchey -- is it impossible for you to go "ugh, writers being idiots, ignore it or write fic to explain it"? Especially if the douchey thing seemed OOC for them?

Or like, if it's in a very old movie/book, where the character occasionally shows some wince-worthy sexism/racism that barely anyone in his/her position back then didn't have? Does that qualify?

Once or twice I might be okay with, but it might depend on what douchey move they made, how much I liked the character at the time, how blindsided I was by it. I like to think I can be laid back, but if it's consistent douchiness, episode after episode, I'll be climbing trees of annoyance (and possibly drop it if it's the main character).

I wouldn't have it qualify if the book/movie/whathaveyou was written/originated in an era where something I find douchey was not at the time. I suppose I would also be okay with a modern day material having characters do things I find douchey but were acceptable for the time period they're placed in.

I might still not like the person though, depending on how douchey the douchiness is.

I'm a big fan of reclaiming characters and since I never take the official writers' work as Gospel, I usually have no problem going "LOL THAT EPISODE/STORYLINE SUCKED IMMA IGNORE IT," which includes incidents where characters act like douches in nonsensical ways. I do like it if I can come up with creative explanations rather than ignoring them, but only if the pleasure in creating the explanation exceeds the pain in acknowledging the douchey behavior's existence.

As for historical stuff -- I like my characters more progressive than was the norm in their society at the time. That's all. After all, a lot of stories set in the present day that seem just fine to us now will probably be winced at and thought of as horribly outdated and prejudiced a few decades in the future, but that doesn't mean I should consider the characters in present-day stories to be bad people when judged against hypothetical social progress that I don't even know about because it hasn't happened yet. It's impossible. So the same goes for my opinion of the good-guy-ness of fictional characters in historical eras.

Your first paragraph is pretty much my approach as well. If a character says or does something in one chapter/episode/whatever that completely flies in the face of previous characterization, makes no sense, and annoys me, I have absolutely no problem saying NOPE and discarding or ignoring that incident. For most things a character does, there is an in-universe explanation -- but sometimes, the only explanation is "bad writing," and trying to force any sort of in-universe logic onto it is just going to warp the rest of the canon and make me disappointed, so I'll chalk it up to writer!fail and move on.

I think it depends on the medium and how often the douchiness occurs, and if there is anything that can redeem the character (at least somewhat.)

I don't read or write fic, so characters are usually just how they are in canon to me. But this takes me back to "the medium." In superhero comics, particularly long running ones, it's easy to have a canon you prefer and writers you particularly like or dislike, so it's also easy to have your own interpretation of a character.

Tv can also be *somewhat* flexible in this way with multiple writers and depending on the show, the person in charge can even change. If it's a long running series I can think a character is an ass, but maybe it's just for a certain arc. Though if the writers are consistent, I may just hate the character for the entire run.

Actors can also sometimes save things a bit, I recently realized 11 is one of my least favorite Doctors in Doctor Who. It's an opinion I didn't realize I had because I really struggled with this since Matt is so lovely in the role. But Eleven's entire arc is horrible. The plots were a mess and the Doctor was often not sympathetic in the slightest and was very often outwardly sexist in the weirdest way. Whenever I think fondly of 11 it's definitely a case of me separating him from the writing.

But that's really not often the case for me, if the writing is bad enough sometimes I'll just hate the character... So my answer really is "it depends."

Yes, anything crappy that the "hero" does in canon can be fixed in fic and make them more likable to me.

An example of this is Scott on Teen Wolf. He's supposed to be the main character and we're supposed to root for him but he has made 1,001 bad decisions and mistakes and can be really whiny. I sometimes don't like him in canon but lots of authors address these things in fic and it makes me like him again.

Sometimes that happens with Stiles and Derek too. Although since they aren't the hero of the story, just side characters, it's a little different.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #2556 ]

If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...

Re: If a character is only an asshole by accident due to the writer's douchery...